[Vision2020] stop the false accusations against Sunil

Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
Tue Aug 22 13:44:08 PDT 2006


Donovan,

The first claim below does not support terrorism. Once we start locking up people independently of being able to prove their guilt in a court of law, we give up the general principles of liberty and justice for which this country stands and the enemies of freedom and democracy have effectively won.

Best, Joe

---- Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote: 

=============
Sunil has stated repeatedly, that he believes that if we cannot find  each and every terrorist guilty of a crime by a trial, we should let  them go. Since it is not possible to try every terrorist and get a  conviction, and he knows this, and we cannot detain them otherwise,  Sunil is suggesting we let many of them go. I think that is supporting  the terrorists. Creating a situation where the US military cannot  defend us by placing the new and unprecedented restriction of a trial  and conviction for every foreign enemy combatant shooting at us before  we can lock them up until the conflict is over, cannot be anything but  favoring the enemy. 
  
 I think that Sunil is dead right in his  disagreement with Bush on foreign policy for opposing torture.. But  deadly wrong in making sure every enemy of the United States gets a  full paid trial on us before we can defend the country. 
  
  Best,
  
  _DJA
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
   
  
  
  
Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:  I've tried not to post responses to Donovan after Roger's comments a couple 
of weeks ago, but I'm sick of his crap.  First he and now Tony have made the 
irresponsible and incorrect statements that I support terrorists or 
terrorism; certainly Donovan has made the claim that I only defend 
terrorists and sworn enemies of the U.S.

I have tried to explain to Donovan offline with no success that I oppose the 
prison in Guantanimo; I oppose the war in Iraq; I oppose the torture of 
prisoners and the abandonment of the Geneva Convention; I oppose this 
administration's foreign policy.  As far as I know, we're still allowed to 
object to our govenrnment's actions.  If he wants to say that means I defend 
terrorists, then he's going to do that, but he's not going to be able to 
defend his lies with anything I've said.

I do object to Donovan's lies about me.  I think he's making dangerous and 
irresponsible statements about me, and I don't think I should have to sit 
here and put up with them.  Sure, I could say no one takes anything he says 
seriously, but I have no idea who might come across his swill and believe 
it.

I never mentioned Tony's wife in my post.  If Donovan read that in my post I 
have to question his literacy.

Tony told me I was not allowed to change the subject, and I made the 
apparently incomprehensible joke that he mistook himself for my wife.  
Donovan, get your big reading book and look up 'pronouns.'  I did not and 
would not make fun of Tony's wife.  I don't know if he's married and don't 
care.

Tony, I have never said I think I'm intellectually superior to you.  Quit 
being so sensitive.  I won't be comparing myself to Lincoln, and I'm no 
fancy pants lawyer.  I don't think of myself as one, and I don't think I'm 
better than anyone else because I'm a lawyer.  But if you make incorrect 
statements about a legal issue, after a while I'm going to point that out to 
you, as I did with your First Amendment statements some time ago, and as 
with your recent statements about freedom of expression.

Sunil


>From: Donovan Arnold 
>To: Joe Campbell , Tony Simpson 
>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] stop the false accusations against Sunil
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:56:09 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Sunil attacked Tony and made a reference to his wife. Why aren't you  
>condemning that Joe? Is making references to people's relatives that  you 
>don't like now acceptable if the person is not a liberal, Joe.  Appears to 
>be the case.
>
>   I hope others join me in condemning attacks on people's relatives and 
>spouses, and not defend people that do so.
>
>   I never said Sunil supported Terrorism, Joe. I said he defends  
>terrorists. Which he has done repeatedly. One can defend the person  
>without condoning the actions of that person.
>
>   Best,
>
>   _DJA
>
>Joe Campbell  wrote:  Tony,
>
>It  is one thing to call Sunil offensive names and accuse him of being an  
>elitist. The first is just childish and the second merely indicates  that 
>you just don't know Sunil. Both of these sorts of things only make  me 
>laugh.
>
>But in our contemporary context it is just plain  irresponsible and wrong 
>to suggest in anyway that Sunil is a supporter  of terrorism. Both you and 
>Donovan have made this absurd accusation --  neither one of you even 
>attempting to support the claim in any way. You  need to get a grip.
>
>I hope that others will join me in condemning these kinds of accusations.
>
>--
>Joe Campbell
>
>---- Tony Simpson  wrote:
>
>=============
>Suenil: Yep pal, I need to go and "oppress someone."
>
>Anyone who supports terrorists instead of his own country I will oppress.
>Anyone who revels in rubbing everyone else's nose in his supposed
>intellectual superiority I will oppress.  Anyone who sees no injustice in
>the premeditated murder of the innocent, I will oppress.  Anyone who tries
>to deny freedom of expression to those with whom they disagree, I will
>oppress.  Anyone who wishes to weaken or destroy the institutions that have
>held civilization together, I will oppress.
>
>So get used to it Lawyer Man, I'm not going anywhere.
>
>Despising arrogant and smug elitists, --TONY
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
>Cc:
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:24 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
>
>
> > Tony,
> >
> > You're the one who brings up my law degree,  not me.  Since you inquired
> > about how I passed the bar, I thought I'd answer you.
> >
> > If you're well-informed, Tony, you're hiding your light under a bushel.
> > Now
> > I'll get out of your hair; you probably need to go oppress someone.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> >>From: "Tony Simpson"
> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >>CC:
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:02:33 -0700
> >>
> >>Sunil,
> >>
> >>Me mistaking myself for your wife?  I'm afraid I have absolutely no idea
> >>what you are talking about.  But pal, that equation would NEVER work out
> >>THAT way.  The reason for the "hon" comment is old news, weren't you
> >>paying
> >>attention councilor?
> >>
> >>Ya' know, Your fancy pants law degree really doesn't mean SHIT to me,
> >>Sunil. Abraham Lincoln had no formal schooling yet he was as brilliant 
>and
> >>persuasive as any "credentialed" man of his time.  As it is with you and
> >>I.
> >>We are both very well informed, just not necessarily in the same exact
> >>areas.  You could really do with a dose of humility, Mr. Constitutional
> >>law
> >>hotshot.
> >>
> >>Now go sue somebody or something.....       -Tony
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >>
> >>Cc:
> >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:36 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>
> >>
> >>>For someone who comes across as a homophobe, Tony, it's odd to find you
> >>>mistaking yourself for my wife.  However, it prepared me for finding 
>your
> >>>response to Andreas and your use of the endearment, 'Hon,' for him.  
>Hey,
> >>>not that there's anything wrong with it, but does his wife know about
> >>>this?
> >>>
> >>>But since you're neither she nor the boss of me, I guess I'm allowed to
> >>>change the subject.
> >>>
> >>>I will give you one clue about how I passed the bar exam, since you
> >>>brought
> >>>it up:  On the Constitutional law section, I discussed the established
> >>>law
> >>>of the United States, not the imagined law and jurisprudence of Tony
> >>>Simpson.  Until you're the Fuhrer, I will recommend this approach to
> >>>those
> >>>preparing for that exam.
> >>>
> >>>I understand that you oppose flag burning.  That puts you with almost 
>the
> >>>entire population of the United States, since this hardly ever happens.
> >>>I've never seen it in person; have you?  But saying it's not speech 
>does
> >>>not
> >>>make you right, even if you say it in multiple posts.  It's also pretty
> >>>ineffective speech, but speech it still is.
> >>>
> >>>Sunil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: "Tony Simpson"
> >>>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >>>>CC:
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>>>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:29:17 -0700
> >>>>
> >>>>Sunil,
> >>>>
> >>>>No, you are not going to be allowed to change the subject.  Address my
> >>>>point about the difference between license and freedom.
> >>>>
> >>>>Standing in opposition to double talking lawyers,  --Tony
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >>>>
> >>>>Cc:
> >>>>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:44 AM
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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