[Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
Tony Simpson
tonytime at clearwire.net
Mon Aug 21 15:07:38 PDT 2006
Andrea,
Yes Hon, I believe burning a flag poses an actual, credible threat to
someone other than the burner. That someone would be every American
citizen, for we are all potential victims of terrorism. Flag burners give
terrorists a huge morale boost, thus aiding and abetting them in their
murderous work. The appropriate charge I should think would be incitement
to terrorize, or perhaps simply treason.
As for the list of silly activities I supposedly have the "right" to do, I
believe you confuse freedom with license and speech with wordless, mute, and
ignorant acting out. I don't give a shit if the Supreme Court has decided
that burning a flag or a cross is "speech"-- if they have made such a
determination, they are quite simply wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
In closing, let me say that you are correct that I enjoy challenging those
who surround themselves with a "bubble of bluster and self delusion." They
pretend to a level of intelligence and discernment that their writing has
yet to confirm. I am heartened to hear that you find my offerings so
compelling and intend to redouble my efforts!
Anything for a lady.
XXXs & OOOs --Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
Cc: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>;
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> On 8/21/06, Tony Simpson <tonytime at clearwire.net> wrote:
>> Sunil,
>>
>> No, you are not going to be allowed to change the subject. Address my
>> point
>> about the difference between license and freedom.
>
> Sunil is a busy attorney, and (I hear) gets no lunch breaks. He spends
> sixteen-hour days in the justice-mines, extracting jurisprudence from
> the soil with the sweat of his very brow. I am on lunch break, and
> only pretend to be an attorney. So, let me fill in for him.
>
> You mentioned, earlier, that license, in terms of free speech, was
> behavior akin to "yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater." I assume this
> to mean that burning a flag poses some actual, credible threat to
> someone else. Whom? Would this be conspiracy? Incitement to riot? You
> tell me, Tony.
>
> In this vein, Tony, let me point out a few things. You feel you have
> the right to levy random accusations of treason, which has a very
> specific definition which, I might note, none of the people you're
> accusing meet. You feel you have the right to advocate the assault of
> people behaving lawfully. You feel you have the right to make open
> threats against people who disagree with your political ideology.
>
> You do, in fact, have those rights, though -- certainly -- you are on
> tenuous ground. In addition, if you so choose, you have the right to
> wave a swastika flag in Friendship Square, and march around Lewiston
> in jackboots and red suspenders, and hang a painting of yourself nude
> and smeared in bat guano in your living room. You have the right to
> light an American flag on fire with a copy of the Constitution while
> yelling obscenities about the President, if you like. These rights
> that you have? They annoy the ever-loving shit out of me, but I
> understand the reasons that you should have them.
>
> But let's be honest, Tony. You don't care about sophisticated legal
> theories, or about freedom, democracy, or even, really, about the
> flag. You just care about grinding your boot in the face of whomever
> punctures the bubble of bluster and self-delusion that surrounds them
> at all times. Why demand answers when, really, you're only looking to
> bully someone much, much smarter than you?
>
> -- ACS
>
>> Standing in opposition to double talking lawyers, --Tony
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
>>
>>
>> > Tony says,
>> >
>> > 'Sunil favors protecting the licentious actions of morons...'
>> >
>> > That's right, I defend your right to spout drivel, and you celebrate
>> > that
>> > right by continuing to do so.
>> >
>> > How on earth could your marriage be devalued if gays were allowed to
>> > marry?
>> > Please explain.
>> >
>> > Sunil
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
>> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:31:52 -0700
>> >>
>> >>Sunil favors protecting the licentious actions of morons and is unable
>> >>to
>> >>distinguish them from legitimate free expression. How'd he EVER pass
>> >>the
>> >>bar??
>> >>
>> >>--Tony
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of dumb--ass liberal ideas is
>> >>for
>> >>clear thinking Americans to do nothing." --Tony Simpson
>> >>
>> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
>> >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
>> >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:49 AM
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Tony favors retaining the right to free expression to those who share
>> >>>opinions approved of by him and other statists.
>> >>>
>> >>>Sunil
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
>> >>>>To: <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>> >>>>CC: Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a
>> >>>>flag--burner's
>> >>>>ass!
>> >>>>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:04:05 -0700
>> >>>>
>> >>>>This line is what makes your arguments hollow Tony.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>"Those who consistently favor state control verses local autonomy and
>> >>>>freedom, are enemies."
>> >>>>
>> >>>>How can you advocate all the controls to be placed upon the citizenry
>> >>>>(no
>> >>>>flags will be burned, no gays will be wed, no women will have
>> >>>>abortion
>> >>>>etc...) and yet claim to be for freedom. I think you are your own
>> >>>>worst
>> >>>>enemy. You come across as a mean spirited crass individual who only
>> >>>>wishes
>> >>>>to lord his will over others.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Forget it buddy, keep your controlling ideas away from me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>James
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com> Date: Mon, 21
>> >>>> > Aug
>> >>>>2006 01:34:17 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re:
>> >>>>[Vision2020]
>> >>>>Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > Yes Keely, you might
>> >>>>support my right to free speech, as it is acknowledged > within the
>> >>>>Bill
>> >>>>of
>> >>>>Rights. That is nice and all, but irrelevant. Flag > burning is not
>> >>>>speech. It is thoughtless and ungrateful acting out, as I >
>> >>>>correctly
>> >>>>noted in my original post.> > Those who consistently support policies
>> >>>>which
>> >>>>would favor America's enemies > are enemies as well. Those who
>> >>>>consistently favor state control verses > local autonomy and freedom,
>> >>>>are
>> >>>>enemies. Those who wish to disarm peaceful > citizens, leaving them
>> >>>>and
>> >>>>their families vulnerable to state tyranny or > civilian crime, are
>> >>>>enemies. Those who advocate the premeditated murder of > the most
>> >>>>helpless
>> >>>>among us, are enemies. Those who feel the government is > justified
>> >>>>in
>> >>>>taking from one American the fruits of his production, and > giving
>> >>>>it
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>another who chooses not to produce, are enemies.> > They of course
>> >>>>would
>> >>>>prefer not to be regarded as such. Indeed, they may > actually regard
>> >>>>themselves as patriots, but the fact remains that their > behavior
>> >>>>speaks
>> >>>>for itself. Irrelevant apples and oranges comparisons >
>> >>>>notwithstanding.>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>Still fed up with America's domestic enemies, -Tony> > > > > > > >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > > > --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "keely
>> >>>> > > > emerinemix"
>> >>>><kjajmix1 at msn.com>> To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>;
>> >>>><london at moscow.com>>
>> >>>>Cc:
>> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:05 PM>
>> >>>>Subject:
>> >>>>Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > > >
>> >>>>Because "subversive hippie" Bill London is my friend, and because
>> >>>>Tony >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>considers him, me, and others like us to be America's "domestic
>> >>>>enemies"
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > when we defend the rights of people to do things that are
>> >>>> > offensive --
>> >>>> > > such as "desecrating" a flag, as Bill put it -- I feel compelled
>> >>>> > > to
>> >>>>note > > that when we find Tony's speech to be sickening,
>> >>>>vituperative,
>> >>>>destructive > > and nasty, we still defend his right to say it.> >> >
>> >>>>Which, I can't help but think, is a good indicator of one's loyalty
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>the
>> >>>> > > principles of the Constitution guiding one's nation. Kinda not
>> >>>> > > an
>> >>>>enemy > > position in my mind.> >> > keely> >> >> > From: "Tony
>> >>>>Simpson"
>> >>>><tonytime at clearwire.net>> > To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> >
>> >>>>CC:
>> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom,
>> >>>>kick
>> >>>>a flag--burner's ass!> > Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0700> >> >
>> >>>>Leave
>> >>>>it to a subversive Hippie like Bill London to praise those who would>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>burn the American flag. Pathetic and loathsome. Flower child London
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>says,> > "If I chose to desecrate a flag by burning it in an open
>> >>>>place....
>> >>>>so > > what?> > That is free speech."> >> > What pure, unadulterated
>> >>>>horseshit! There is no speech involved in such a> > juvenile,
>> >>>>thoughtless,
>> >>>>ungrateful and snotnosed activity. It is> > unpatriotic, typically
>> >>>>liberal
>> >>>>acting out. If that is free speech, Billy> > Boy, then it would be
>> >>>>free
>> >>>>speech for me to walk up to said burner and > > bury> > my boot a
>> >>>>foot
>> >>>>up
>> >>>>his terrorist--enabling ass!> >> > Sick to death of America's
>> >>>>domestic
>> >>>>enemies, --TONY> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Bill
>> >>>>London"
>> >>>><london at moscow.com>> > To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>;
>> >>>><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > <sslund at adelphia.net>;
>> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:13 AM> >
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> >> >> > >
>> >>>>Since
>> >>>>you
>> >>>>asked.....> > > a few of my reasons why I think a Constitutional
>> >>>>amendment
>> >>>>against> > > desecrating the flag is stupid....> > > 1. what is the
>> >>>>problem? how many descrated flags are there?> > > 2. if I own the
>> >>>>flag
>> >>>>and
>> >>>>choose to desecrate it by burning it in an open> > > place that will
>> >>>>not
>> >>>>cause a general fire, so what? That is free speech.> > > The flag is
>> >>>>a
>> >>>>symbol, and burning it is Constitutionally-protected.> > > 3. what is
>> >>>>desecration? wearing a flag on the butt of your jeans?> > >
>> >>>>wrapping> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>your used car in flags to sell it at a used car lot? getting a
>> >>>>tattoo >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > of> > > flag upside down? Boy Scouts burning old flags?> > > BL>
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> > >>
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> >> > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: "Matt
>> >>>> >> > >> > >> > > Decker"
>> >>>><mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> > > To: <london at moscow.com>;
>> >>>><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > > <sslund at adelphia.net>;
>> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:21 PM>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>>Mr.
>> >>>>London,> > >>> > >> And just as they should. Why shouldn't the
>> >>>>congress
>> >>>>take one day out of> > >> their schedule in order to make flag
>> >>>>burning
>> >>>>an
>> >>>>offense? If they focus> > on> > >> baseball why not on the flag?> >
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> Matt> > >>> > >>> > >> >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>>
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>,> >
>> >>>><sslund at adelphia.net>,> > >> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >>
>> >>>> >Subject:
>> >>>>Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >Date: Thu, 17
>> >>>>Aug
>> >>>>2006
>> >>>>12:33:43 -0700> > >> >> > >> >Yes, it is true that Chicago has (for
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>reasons Ms. Lund has> > > enumerated)> > >> >banned foie gras,
>> >>>>because
>> >>>>of
>> >>>>the disgusting and inhumane way the birds> > > are> > >> >force-fed
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>create these inflated livers. Chicago has not banned > > >> >duck> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >liver, only foie gras.> > >> >And as for the reason, it's all a
>> >>>>question
>> >>>>of values, as the> > Republicans> > >> >say every year when they try
>> >>>>to
>> >>>>amend the US Constitution to end the> > >> >non-existant problem of
>> >>>>people
>> >>>>burning US flags.> > >> >BL> > >> > ----- Original Message -----> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> From: kerry becker> > >> > To: sslund at adelphia.net ;
>> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56
>> >>>>PM>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >>
>> >>>> >> > >>
>> >>>> >> > >
>> >>>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > This is absurd. The
>> >>>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > city
>> >>>>of Chicago has taken the time to ban duck> > >> >liver?? - Meanwhile
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>inner city runs rampant with crime, poverty > > >> >and> > >> >drugs.
>> >>>>Odd
>> >>>>really.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>> >>>> > > -> > >> >> > >> > From: "Saundra Lund"
>> >>>> > > <sslund at adelphia.net>>
>> >>>> > > >
>> >>>> >> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> > Subject: Re:
>> >>>>[Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > Date: Wed, 16
>> >>>>Aug
>> >>>>2006 15:38:46 -0700> > >> > >Visionaries:> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> >I
>> >>>>have debated and debated about whether to post this or not, > > >> >
>> >>>>but>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I'd> > >> >hate> > >> > >for an unsuspecting person to go to
>> >>>> > West
>> >>>> > of
>> >>>>Paris only to be> > >> >horrified.> > >> > >> > >> > >I was
>> >>>>deeply
>> >>>>disappointed to see that West of Paris will be> > >> > selling> > >>
>> >>>> >foie>
>> >>>> > >> > >gras:> > >> >
>> >>>> >http://www.westofparis.com/dinner_menu.html> > >> > >For that
>> >>>>reason
>> >>>>alone, I will refuse to patronize the business,> > no> > >> >matter>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >how delicious other menu items look or sound -- it's a matter
>> >>>> of>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> >ethics for> > >> > >me.> > >> > >> > >> > >The
>> >>>> >> >process
>> >>>>used to make foie gras is animal cruelty, pure and> > > simple> > >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>:-(((> > >> > >Fifteen nations (including the UK, the Czech
>> >>>>Republic,
>> >>>>Denmark,> > >> >Finland,> > >> > >Germany, Luxembourg, Norway,
>> >>>>Poland,
>> >>>>Sweden, Switzerland, and> > > Israel> > >> >--> > >> > >formerly
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>fourth largest producer in the world) have banned> > >>
>> >>>> >force-feeding>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> > >birds for foie gras production. The City of Chicago has
>> >>>> >> > >> >
>> >>>>banned>
>> >>>> > >> > the> > >> >sale of> > >> > >foie gras, and Philadelphia
>> >>>> > >> > is
>> >>>>likely to follow. Beginning > > >> > 2012,> > > the> > >> >
>> >>>> >production and sale of foie gras from force-fed birds will be> > >
>> >>>>banned> > >> >in the> > >> > >State of California.> > >> > >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> > >I won't go into the horrifying and graphic details of how
>> >>>> > foie>
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>> >> > gras> > >> >is> > >> > >produced, but for those who want to
>> >>>> >> > >>
>> >>>> > learn
>> >>>>more, you can check> > out:> > >> >
>> >>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras> > >> > >You can also
>> >>>> >Google
>> >>>>it, but WARNING: there's a lot of deeply> > >> >disturbing> > >> >
>> >>>> >(although accurate) information and photos you'll find.> > >> >
>> >>>> > >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> > >Very disappointing that foie gras will be sold in *any*
>> >>>>Moscow>
>> >>>> > >> >restaurant> > >> > >:-(((> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> >JMNSHO,> > >> > >Saundra Lund> > >> > >Moscow, ID> > >> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> > >> > >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
>> >>>>good>
>> >>>> > >> > people> > >> >to do> > >> > >nothing.> > >> > >-
>> >>>> > >> > Edmund
>> >>>>Burke> > >> > >> > >> > >***** Original material contained
>> >>>>herein
>> >>>>is Copyright 2006,> > >> > Saundra> > >> >Lund.> > >> > >Do not
>> >>>>copy,
>> >>>>forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision> > >> > 2020> > >>
>> >>>> >forum> > >> > >without the express written permission of the
>> >>>>author.*****> > >> > >> > >> > >-----Original Message-----> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> > >>
>> >>>> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]> > >> > >On Behalf Of
>> >>>> >Daniel
>> >>>>Foucachon> > >> > >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:59 PM> > >> >
>> >>>> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > >Subject: [Vision2020] West
>> >>>> >of
>> >>>>Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >> > > West of > > >> >
>> >>>>Paris<http://www.westofparis.com/images/west_paris.gif>> > >> >
>> >>>> >Grand
>> >>>>Opening> > >> > >Friday, August 18th, 2006> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> >Now accepting reservations> > >> > >> > >> > >Call (208)
>> >>>>882-4279> > >> > >> > >> > >www.westofparis.com
>> >>>><http://www.westofparis.com/> | opening at> > > 6:00> > >> >p.m.> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >>>> >=======================================================> > >> >
>> >>>> > >
>> >>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > >
>> >>>>serving
>> >>>>the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> > >
>> >>>>http://www.fsr.net> > >> > >
>> >>>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> > >=======================================================> >
>> >>>> >> > >>
>> >>>> >> > >>
>> >>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>> >>>> > > ---> > >> > Windows Live Spaces is here! It's easy to create
>> >>>> > > your
>> >>>>own personal> > >> > Web> > >> >site.> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->
>> >>>> > > ---> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >
>> >>>>=======================================================> > >> >
>> >>>>List
>> >>>>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > serving
>> >>>>the
>> >>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >
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>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> =======================================================> > >>> >
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> >=======================================================> > >> >
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>> >>>>services made available by First Step Internet,> > >> > serving the
>> >>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >
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>> >>>> >=======================================================> > >>> > >>
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>> >>>> > > =======================================================> > >
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>> >>>>made available by First Step Internet,> > serving the communities of
>> >>>>the
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>> >>>>Palouse since 1994. > http://www.fsr.net
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>> >>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>> >>>=======================================================
>> >>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> >>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>>=======================================================
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>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > =======================================================
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>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
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>> >
>>
>>
>> =======================================================
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>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>>
>
>
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