[Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
Andreas Schou
ophite at gmail.com
Mon Aug 21 13:01:15 PDT 2006
On 8/21/06, Tony Simpson <tonytime at clearwire.net> wrote:
> Sunil,
>
> No, you are not going to be allowed to change the subject. Address my point
> about the difference between license and freedom.
Sunil is a busy attorney, and (I hear) gets no lunch breaks. He spends
sixteen-hour days in the justice-mines, extracting jurisprudence from
the soil with the sweat of his very brow. I am on lunch break, and
only pretend to be an attorney. So, let me fill in for him.
You mentioned, earlier, that license, in terms of free speech, was
behavior akin to "yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater." I assume this
to mean that burning a flag poses some actual, credible threat to
someone else. Whom? Would this be conspiracy? Incitement to riot? You
tell me, Tony.
In this vein, Tony, let me point out a few things. You feel you have
the right to levy random accusations of treason, which has a very
specific definition which, I might note, none of the people you're
accusing meet. You feel you have the right to advocate the assault of
people behaving lawfully. You feel you have the right to make open
threats against people who disagree with your political ideology.
You do, in fact, have those rights, though -- certainly -- you are on
tenuous ground. In addition, if you so choose, you have the right to
wave a swastika flag in Friendship Square, and march around Lewiston
in jackboots and red suspenders, and hang a painting of yourself nude
and smeared in bat guano in your living room. You have the right to
light an American flag on fire with a copy of the Constitution while
yelling obscenities about the President, if you like. These rights
that you have? They annoy the ever-loving shit out of me, but I
understand the reasons that you should have them.
But let's be honest, Tony. You don't care about sophisticated legal
theories, or about freedom, democracy, or even, really, about the
flag. You just care about grinding your boot in the face of whomever
punctures the bubble of bluster and self-delusion that surrounds them
at all times. Why demand answers when, really, you're only looking to
bully someone much, much smarter than you?
-- ACS
> Standing in opposition to double talking lawyers, --Tony
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
>
>
> > Tony says,
> >
> > 'Sunil favors protecting the licentious actions of morons...'
> >
> > That's right, I defend your right to spout drivel, and you celebrate that
> > right by continuing to do so.
> >
> > How on earth could your marriage be devalued if gays were allowed to
> > marry?
> > Please explain.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:31:52 -0700
> >>
> >>Sunil favors protecting the licentious actions of morons and is unable to
> >>distinguish them from legitimate free expression. How'd he EVER pass the
> >>bar??
> >>
> >>--Tony
> >>
> >>
> >>"The only thing necessary for the triumph of dumb--ass liberal ideas is
> >>for
> >>clear thinking Americans to do nothing." --Tony Simpson
> >>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"
> >><sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 7:49 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom
> >>
> >>
> >>>Tony favors retaining the right to free expression to those who share
> >>>opinions approved of by him and other statists.
> >>>
> >>>Sunil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
> >>>>To: <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
> >>>>CC: Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's
> >>>>ass!
> >>>>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:04:05 -0700
> >>>>
> >>>>This line is what makes your arguments hollow Tony.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Those who consistently favor state control verses local autonomy and
> >>>>freedom, are enemies."
> >>>>
> >>>>How can you advocate all the controls to be placed upon the citizenry
> >>>>(no
> >>>>flags will be burned, no gays will be wed, no women will have abortion
> >>>>etc...) and yet claim to be for freedom. I think you are your own worst
> >>>>enemy. You come across as a mean spirited crass individual who only
> >>>>wishes
> >>>>to lord his will over others.
> >>>>
> >>>>Forget it buddy, keep your controlling ideas away from me.
> >>>>
> >>>>James
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> > From: tonytime at clearwire.net> To: kjajmix1 at msn.com> Date: Mon, 21 Aug
> >>>>2006 01:34:17 -0700> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re:
> >>>>[Vision2020]
> >>>>Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > Yes Keely, you might
> >>>>support my right to free speech, as it is acknowledged > within the Bill
> >>>>of
> >>>>Rights. That is nice and all, but irrelevant. Flag > burning is not
> >>>>speech. It is thoughtless and ungrateful acting out, as I > correctly
> >>>>noted in my original post.> > Those who consistently support policies
> >>>>which
> >>>>would favor America's enemies > are enemies as well. Those who
> >>>>consistently favor state control verses > local autonomy and freedom,
> >>>>are
> >>>>enemies. Those who wish to disarm peaceful > citizens, leaving them and
> >>>>their families vulnerable to state tyranny or > civilian crime, are
> >>>>enemies. Those who advocate the premeditated murder of > the most
> >>>>helpless
> >>>>among us, are enemies. Those who feel the government is > justified in
> >>>>taking from one American the fruits of his production, and > giving it
> >>>>to
> >>>>another who chooses not to produce, are enemies.> > They of course would
> >>>>prefer not to be regarded as such. Indeed, they may > actually regard
> >>>>themselves as patriots, but the fact remains that their > behavior
> >>>>speaks
> >>>>for itself. Irrelevant apples and oranges comparisons >
> >>>>notwithstanding.>
> >>>> >
> >>>>Still fed up with America's domestic enemies, -Tony> > > > > > > > > >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > > --Tony> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "keely emerinemix"
> >>>><kjajmix1 at msn.com>> To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <london at moscow.com>>
> >>>>Cc:
> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:05 PM> Subject:
> >>>>Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom, kick a flag--burner's ass!> > > >
> >>>>Because "subversive hippie" Bill London is my friend, and because Tony >
> >>>> >
> >>>>considers him, me, and others like us to be America's "domestic enemies"
> >>>> >
> >>>> > when we defend the rights of people to do things that are
> >>>> > offensive --
> >>>> > > such as "desecrating" a flag, as Bill put it -- I feel compelled to
> >>>>note > > that when we find Tony's speech to be sickening, vituperative,
> >>>>destructive > > and nasty, we still defend his right to say it.> >> >
> >>>>Which, I can't help but think, is a good indicator of one's loyalty to
> >>>>the
> >>>> > > principles of the Constitution guiding one's nation. Kinda not an
> >>>>enemy > > position in my mind.> >> > keely> >> >> > From: "Tony Simpson"
> >>>><tonytime at clearwire.net>> > To: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> > CC:
> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom,
> >>>>kick
> >>>>a flag--burner's ass!> > Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:28:33 -0700> >> >
> >>>>Leave
> >>>>it to a subversive Hippie like Bill London to praise those who would> >
> >>>>burn the American flag. Pathetic and loathsome. Flower child London >
> >>>> >
> >>>>says,> > "If I chose to desecrate a flag by burning it in an open
> >>>>place....
> >>>>so > > what?> > That is free speech."> >> > What pure, unadulterated
> >>>>horseshit! There is no speech involved in such a> > juvenile,
> >>>>thoughtless,
> >>>>ungrateful and snotnosed activity. It is> > unpatriotic, typically
> >>>>liberal
> >>>>acting out. If that is free speech, Billy> > Boy, then it would be free
> >>>>speech for me to walk up to said burner and > > bury> > my boot a foot
> >>>>up
> >>>>his terrorist--enabling ass!> >> > Sick to death of America's domestic
> >>>>enemies, --TONY> > ----- Original Message -----> > From: "Bill London"
> >>>><london at moscow.com>> > To: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>;
> >>>><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > <sslund at adelphia.net>;
> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 10:13 AM> >
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> >> >> > > Since
> >>>>you
> >>>>asked.....> > > a few of my reasons why I think a Constitutional
> >>>>amendment
> >>>>against> > > desecrating the flag is stupid....> > > 1. what is the
> >>>>problem? how many descrated flags are there?> > > 2. if I own the flag
> >>>>and
> >>>>choose to desecrate it by burning it in an open> > > place that will not
> >>>>cause a general fire, so what? That is free speech.> > > The flag is a
> >>>>symbol, and burning it is Constitutionally-protected.> > > 3. what is
> >>>>desecration? wearing a flag on the butt of your jeans?> > > wrapping> >
> >>>> >
> >>>>your used car in flags to sell it at a used car lot? getting a tattoo >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > of> > > flag upside down? Boy Scouts burning old flags?> > > BL> >
> >>>> > >>
> >>>> > >
> >>>> >> > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: "Matt Decker"
> >>>><mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> > > To: <london at moscow.com>;
> >>>><kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>;> > > <sslund at adelphia.net>;
> >>>><vision2020 at moscow.com>> > > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:21 PM> >
> >>>> >
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >>
> >>>>Mr.
> >>>>London,> > >>> > >> And just as they should. Why shouldn't the congress
> >>>>take one day out of> > >> their schedule in order to make flag burning
> >>>>an
> >>>>offense? If they focus> > on> > >> baseball why not on the flag?> > >>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> Matt> > >>> > >>> > >> >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>> >
> >>>> >> >>
> >>>> >To: "kerry becker" <kerrybecker6924 at hotmail.com>,> >
> >>>><sslund at adelphia.net>,> > >> > <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >>
> >>>> >Subject:
> >>>>Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >Date: Thu, 17 Aug
> >>>>2006
> >>>>12:33:43 -0700> > >> >> > >> >Yes, it is true that Chicago has (for the
> >>>>reasons Ms. Lund has> > > enumerated)> > >> >banned foie gras, because
> >>>>of
> >>>>the disgusting and inhumane way the birds> > > are> > >> >force-fed to
> >>>>create these inflated livers. Chicago has not banned > > >> >duck> > >>
> >>>> >liver, only foie gras.> > >> >And as for the reason, it's all a
> >>>>question
> >>>>of values, as the> > Republicans> > >> >say every year when they try to
> >>>>amend the US Constitution to end the> > >> >non-existant problem of
> >>>>people
> >>>>burning US flags.> > >> >BL> > >> > ----- Original Message -----> > >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> From: kerry becker> > >> > To: sslund at adelphia.net ;
> >>>>vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:56
> >>>>PM>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> >>
> >>>> >> > >
> >>>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > This is absurd. The
> >>>> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > city
> >>>>of Chicago has taken the time to ban duck> > >> >liver?? - Meanwhile the
> >>>>inner city runs rampant with crime, poverty > > >> >and> > >> >drugs.
> >>>>Odd
> >>>>really.> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------->
> >>>> > > -> > >> >> > >> > From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>>
> >>>> > > >
> >>>> >> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>> > >> > Subject: Re:
> >>>>[Vision2020] West of Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > Date: Wed, 16 Aug
> >>>>2006 15:38:46 -0700> > >> > >Visionaries:> > >> > >> > >> >
> >>>> >I
> >>>>have debated and debated about whether to post this or not, > > >> >
> >>>>but>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I'd> > >> >hate> > >> > >for an unsuspecting person to go to West
> >>>> > of
> >>>>Paris only to be> > >> >horrified.> > >> > >> > >> > >I was
> >>>>deeply
> >>>>disappointed to see that West of Paris will be> > >> > selling> > >>
> >>>> >foie>
> >>>> > >> > >gras:> > >> >
> >>>> >http://www.westofparis.com/dinner_menu.html> > >> > >For that
> >>>>reason
> >>>>alone, I will refuse to patronize the business,> > no> > >> >matter> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >how delicious other menu items look or sound -- it's a matter of>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> >ethics for> > >> > >me.> > >> > >> > >> > >The process
> >>>>used to make foie gras is animal cruelty, pure and> > > simple> > >> >
> >>>>:-(((> > >> > >Fifteen nations (including the UK, the Czech
> >>>>Republic,
> >>>>Denmark,> > >> >Finland,> > >> > >Germany, Luxembourg, Norway,
> >>>>Poland,
> >>>>Sweden, Switzerland, and> > > Israel> > >> >--> > >> > >formerly the
> >>>>fourth largest producer in the world) have banned> > >> >force-feeding>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> > >birds for foie gras production. The City of Chicago has >> >
> >>>>banned>
> >>>> > >> > the> > >> >sale of> > >> > >foie gras, and Philadelphia is
> >>>>likely to follow. Beginning > > >> > 2012,> > > the> > >> >
> >>>> >production and sale of foie gras from force-fed birds will be> > >
> >>>>banned> > >> >in the> > >> > >State of California.> > >> > >> >
> >>>> >>
> >>>> > >I won't go into the horrifying and graphic details of how foie>
> >>>> > >
> >>>> >> > gras> > >> >is> > >> > >produced, but for those who want to >>
> >>>> > learn
> >>>>more, you can check> > out:> > >> >
> >>>> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foie_gras> > >> > >You can also
> >>>> >Google
> >>>>it, but WARNING: there's a lot of deeply> > >> >disturbing> > >> >
> >>>> >(although accurate) information and photos you'll find.> > >> > >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> > >Very disappointing that foie gras will be sold in *any*
> >>>>Moscow>
> >>>> > >> >restaurant> > >> > >:-(((> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
> >>>> >JMNSHO,> > >> > >Saundra Lund> > >> > >Moscow, ID> > >> > >>
> >>>> > >> > >The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
> >>>>good>
> >>>> > >> > people> > >> >to do> > >> > >nothing.> > >> > >- Edmund
> >>>>Burke> > >> > >> > >> > >***** Original material contained
> >>>>herein
> >>>>is Copyright 2006,> > >> > Saundra> > >> >Lund.> > >> > >Do not
> >>>>copy,
> >>>>forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision> > >> > 2020> > >>
> >>>> >forum> > >> > >without the express written permission of the
> >>>>author.*****> > >> > >> > >> > >-----Original Message-----> > >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> > >>
> >>>> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]> > >> > >On Behalf Of
> >>>> >Daniel
> >>>>Foucachon> > >> > >Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 7:59 PM> > >> >
> >>>> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com> > >> > >Subject: [Vision2020] West of
> >>>>Paris, Grand Opening> > >> > >> > >> > > West of > > >> >
> >>>>Paris<http://www.westofparis.com/images/west_paris.gif>> > >> >
> >>>> >Grand
> >>>>Opening> > >> > >Friday, August 18th, 2006> > >> > >> > >> >
> >>>> >Now accepting reservations> > >> > >> > >> > >Call (208)
> >>>>882-4279> > >> > >> > >> > >www.westofparis.com
> >>>><http://www.westofparis.com/> | opening at> > > 6:00> > >> >p.m.> > >>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> > >> > >> > >> >
> >>>> >=======================================================> > >> > >
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> >>>>serving
> >>>>the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> > >
> >>>>http://www.fsr.net> > >> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> > >=======================================================> > >>
> >>>> >> > >>
> >>>> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
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> >>>>own personal> > >> > Web> > >> >site.> > >> >> > >> >> > >>> >
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> >>>> =======================================================> > >>> > >>>
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> >>>> >> >=======================================================> > >> >
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> >>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.> > >> >
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> >>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> >
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> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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