[Vision2020] Poor Sportsmanship

Mon Aug 14 11:28:18 PDT 2006

Justin,

First off, the thread of discussion turned from Philadelphia sports teams to 
Phill(y) fans.  So the ro(w)diness of fans has nothing to do with the 
success of the organization.  But organizational success wasn't the point of 
EJ's post.  It was a pointed, narrow, uninformed, inadequate listing of 
Phildelphia fans atrocities against opposing teams, fans and Santa Claus, 
though they've done MUCH better than booeing Father Christmas, of which I am 
very proud.  Albert Belle severely beat his wife and Michael Irvin was a 
coke-head accused of raping a woman with several Cowboy teamates.  I pointed 
out that Philly fans, though rowdy at times, are much better than other 
cities' fans (i.e. NBA brawls, Chicago Cubs fans, Raider Fans, Yankees fans 
vs. Bo' Sox fans...).  But in reference to your question concerning how to 
quantify the success of a franchise...  The Yankees are the greatest team in 
Baseball history simply b/c they won more championships than everyone else.  
Joe  Torre, considered one of the game's best managers, is supposedly on the 
hot seat for failing to win the Fall Classic the last few years.  Same for 
Green Bay, San Francisco, and Dallas in the NFL.  You play to win in the 
pros.  Why do coaches who consistently get to the playoffs, or have 
above-.500 records get canned??  B/c they fail to win the big one.  I'm 
sorry, but the Mariners will never be considered a great team, even if they 
win 116 games again in a season, until they can translate the winning into a 
W.S. victory.  Thats the rule of pro sports.  In regards to the Seahawks vs. 
Eagles, the Eagles had dominated the NFC before last year and the T.O. 
fiasco.  Granted, they never won the Super Bowl, and the NFC championship 
once, but thats still better than Seattle has managed to do.  Nothing huge, 
but still a fact.  It will be interesting to see if the Seahawks can build 
on last year's success, and go on to dominate their conference.  But in the 
meantime, I'll be cheering for the Eagles.  BTW, the NFL season start in 4 
weeks.  Any predictions??

>From: "Justin Spencer" <jspenceu2 at hotmail.com>
>To: davidwilliams365 at hotmail.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poor Sportsmanship
>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:07:10 -0700
>
>What is the criteria with which you judge a cities sports teams? Is it 
>National championships? Number of winning seasons? The number of times they 
>have gotten to the playoffs? What does the roudiness of fans have anything 
>to do with it? I can think of one team (Oakland Raiders) who has had a 
>storied history of wins and hall of fame players and coaches who quite 
>frankly is horrible right now. Seattle has two national championship to its 
>name the...WNBA?...whooopie! And the Sonics back in 1979. Now does that say 
>that they have horrible teams? No, in times the Sonics have been good; the 
>Mariners 2001, if you can remember back that far tied the best record ever 
>with 116 wins. The Seahawks just made it to the superbowl last year...for 
>the first time. But I want to really get back to baseball which is what 
>started this discussion. The Mariners, who happen to be my favorite team, 
>are dreadful. They need better pitching and more experienced hitting, but 
>that is not the topic of this email; save that for later. They have NEVER 
>been to a World Series...ever. Teams from Philli have been to it 12 times, 
>going all the way back to the Phillidelphia Athletics in 1905. 
>Hmmmm...Interesting. The Eagles have been to the Superbowl twice as well, 
>one more than the Seattle team.
>
>Justin
>
>>From: "David Williams" <davidwilliams365 at hotmail.com>
>>To: Ejtuuri at aol.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poor Sportsmanship
>>Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:04:28 -0400
>>
>>EJ,
>>
>>You're right.  Philadelphia fans are passionate about sports.  But I can 
>>do
>>you one better.  Booeing Santa Claus??  Booeing Donovan McNabb (many times
>>in his career)??  C'mon, thats pretty mild.  What about the time Phillies
>>fans chucked AA batteries at Indians rightfielder Albert Belle??  Or the
>>time they cheered when hated Dallas Cowboys receiver Michael Irvin was
>>carted off the field, ending his career, when he almost broke his neck on
>>the famed Vet Astro Turf??  Did you know that the Vet was the only pro
>>sports stadium to have a court, complete with judge and jail cell, for
>>trying rowdy fans??  They would actually hold people overnight.  But 
>>here's
>>the kicker.  What about that poor Chicago Cubs fan who accidentally got in
>>the way of Moises Alou trying to catch a foul ball??  This supposedly cost
>>the Cubs a berth in the World Series??  This guy got death threats!?!?!
>>What about the ugly Pacers brawl in your beloved NBA??  This is being 
>>hailed
>>as one of the ugliest moments in sports history, and your crying about 
>>some
>>fans booeing Santa Claus??  C'mon man, thats pretty weak.  Makes me wonder
>>what would happen to you if you EVER worked up the courage to confront a
>>Philly fan.
>>
>>DW
>>
>>
>> >From: Ejtuuri at aol.com
>> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poor Sportsmanship
>> >Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 18:27:54 EDT
>> >
>> >Hey ho, no it is not true... Philadelphia does not have the worst sports
>> >teams. No, they have the worst fans.... lets take a stroll down memory
>> >lane..
>> >The two most memorable incidents are that of the 1999 NFL draft, when
>> >eagles
>> >fans wanting Ricky Williams, Booed Donovan profusely when they drafted 
>>him
>> >instead of Williams. And then the most infamous incident would have to 
>>be
>> >when
>> >during a game Santa clause was booed and had snowballs thrown at him by 
>>the
>> >not
>> >so slightly inebriated "fans" of those same eagles. Which brings me to 
>>the
>> >motto  that I like to live by.
>> >
>> >Punch an eagles fan in the face make the world a better place.
>> >
>> >Ej
>>
>>
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