[Vision2020] Nick, Saundra and the Princess

Mon Aug 14 09:00:37 PDT 2006

As someone who owes her very life to Christ's atonement on the cross -- yep, 
body piercing saved my life! -- I have a few thoughts:

I've been staying out of this thread not because of disinterest -- some of 
you may recall that I have rather strong views on religion -- but because 
I'm up to mine in alligators trying to coordinate the remodelling of a 
house, find a renter for our apartment, and accommodate yet another wave of 
houseguests.  It's one of the few times in my life when I've been too busy 
to wade in to something that matters greatly to me.  But before the painter 
requires my attention this morning, I'd like to make a few points, provoked 
as I am by Tony's response to Saundra, below.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I am in near total agreement 
with the theology espoused by Princess LackingHuevos, who, in his/her 
anonymity, has done an able job of defending the classic, orthodox Christian 
doctrine of Christ's atonement on the cross.  I could, however, do without 
the Princess' continued harangue toward my friend Nick Gier, who doesn't 
agree with the classic, orthodox Christian doctrine of Christ's atonement -- 
in fact, he finds it rather off-putting.  Why this surprises, much less 
offends, the Princess would be puzzling were it not for said royalty's 
history of disrespect and rudeness toward those who hold to beliefs he 
doesn't, both from inside or outside of the fold.  I think it's clear to all 
that while Sushitushi is an apt defender of the doctrines of the faith, the 
tone taken indicates that he/she is also a poor imitator of the One those 
doctrines point to.

Nick Gier isn't a Christian.  That's not a judgment on my part; it's not to 
say that he's not kind, gracious, loving, gentle and merciful.  He is all of 
those things, as are many people who don't claim Christ as their Savior.  
Those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus are rightfully counted as 
Christians, and those who don't, aren't.  If Nick has made it clear that he 
has found satisfaction and solace in other faith traditions apart from the 
essential doctrines of Christianity, then why would anyone who claims to be 
a Christian take such a nasty approach in acknowledging their doctrinal 
differences?  This isn't the pastor of First Evangelical Christian Community 
Tabernacle who's denying the historic teachings of the faith -- that would 
be worrisome -- but a scholar who is not a professing Christian.  Nick Gier 
isn't an "enemy" who needs to be contained or disarmed.  He's a man who 
believes that the things Sushitushi believes are lacking in reason, 
distasteful, or, for whatever reason, simply not for him.  There is nothing 
about that that should invite snotty, mocking rejoinders from those who do 
believe.  Nick and I are friends; he admires me and I admire him, even as we 
disagree on virtually every point of evangelical theology.  God forbid I 
should attempt to assert my "rightness" apart from common decency or 
Spirit-filled righteousness.

Now, I don't know if the Princess is Doug Jones, Chris Witmer, Ben Merkle or 
any other leader or defender of the Kirk.  I don't much care.  I do lament 
that the Princess is unable to fairly and honestly belly up to the bar by 
using his/her real name, but I suppose it's tempting to want to revel in 
rudeness without the messy consequences of doing so without the cloak of 
anonymity.  His arguments might be mature and well-thought out, but it's a 
little difficult to be swayed by someone who can't bring him/herself to 
using their given moniker.  And I'm assuming it's someone from the Kirk, 
because of the fervor of support for the leadership and, sadly, because of 
the cogency of the argument -- most evangelical churches have not raised an 
army of able, apt defenders of the Gospel, and if they did, I imagine they'd 
be glowing with pride and unable to do so anonymously.

In my reading over the weekend, I came upon something that I think puts it 
all into context far better than I have, and will perhaps be a benefit to 
those who practice imprecatory prayer, are dismissive of their theological 
"enemies," and exalt classical academia over common decency:

"Bless those who persecute you, don't curse them, pray that God will bless 
them.  Be happy with those who are happy, and weep with those who weep.  
Live in harmony with each other.  Don't be too proud to enjoy the company of 
ordinary people.  And don't think you know it all!  Never pay back evil with 
more evil.  Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. 
  Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone . . . " (Romans 
12:14-18)

keely

From: "Tony Simpson" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:08:38 -0700

WOW SAUNDRA, you rail on for the bulk of your post at Taro Tanaka without
ever ONCE addressing the very thoughtful arguments she presented.  What's
the problem Dear?  Out of your intellectual league?

Fed up with the enemies of reason,  --Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] True Muslims and True Americans

 > "Taro Tankara" aka "Princess Sushitushi" aka "Princess Camera-Shy" aka
 > "Princess Who Rushes in Where Trespassers Fear to Tread" aka "Prince Pay
 > No
 > Attention to the Man Behind the Curtain" aka "Prince Late-for-Dinner" aka
 > "Prince in One Hour or You Don't Pay!" aka "Princess
 > Putnotthytrustinprinces" aka "Prince Albasilas Monachus" aka "The 
Princess
 > Formerly Known as Prince" aka "Prince McPauper" aka "Princess Forlornia,
 > Ever Hopeful Frog Kisser" aka "Shining Prince Stanley Nicholson Genji" 
aka
 > "Prince Eduardo Cigarro" wrote:
 > "I'm almost afraid to reply to Nick, because each time he comes back with
 > something nuttier than before."
 >
 > No, sorry -- that would be Taro Tanaka with the multitude of alias, none
 > of
 > which are real names.
 >
 > This V2020 poster reminds me of one of the Edna's -- the one who couldn't
 > decide whether to post as a male or female.
 >
 > One who hasn't made the leap of faith to accept God's grace might 
conclude
 > that it is Christianity, rather than cowards afraid to sign their own
 > names,
 > that causes gender confusion  ;-)
 >
 >
 > JMHO,
 > Saundra Lund
 > Moscow, ID
 >
 > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
 > nothing.
 > - Edmund Burke
 >
 > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
 > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
 > without the express written permission of the author.*****
 >
 >
 > =======================================================
 > List services made available by First Step Internet,
 > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
 >               http://www.fsr.net
 >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
 > =======================================================
 >
 >

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  List services made available by First Step Internet,
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