[Vision2020] Coincidence?
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 11 19:44:24 PDT 2006
Dick Sherwin wrote:
> Paul R. wrote: "Is it really a credible threat? I haven't seen the
> news lately, but from what I've heard it doesn't sound possible that
> they could have taken down an airliner with a small amount of some
> home-made liquid explosive."
>
> ________________________________________________
>
> Yes Paul, this is REALLY a CREDIBLE threat! Also, it takes very
> little explosive, of any kind, to bring down any airliner if it is
> placed in a crucial location. Does the term "nitro-glycerin" ring a
> bell in your head? That is but one example of a liquid explosive that
> can be made easily at home, with a little knowledge.
I'm no chemist, but nitroglycerin is unstable. So are most of the
liquid explosives I've ever heard about. What good does it do you if
you cause the substance to explode while packing it in the car before
you've even driven to the airport? The ones that aren't unstable are
not that powerful. You probably could take a plane down, but could you
ensure it would kill everyone?
Anyway, the reason I'm skeptical has more to do with other information
we've heard about the "plots" that were uncovered. We have no real
information here. We have a few people in detention. We have the word
of the British police that the threat was credible. Unfortunately, they
don't have a great track record either. Read about the Brazilian guy
they shot in the face nine times that they thought was a suicide
bomber. They said he was wearing a bulky winter coat that they thought
he might have explosives hidden under. He wasn't. They said he vaulted
over the ticket turnstile so they gave chase. He didn't. It's possible
the police (who were wearing plain clothes) didn't even identify
themselves as policemen. No witnesses heard the word "police".
I'm just being skeptical. I'm not claiming that there was no plot or
that they weren't terrorists or anything like that. I'm just waiting
for the evidence. With any luck, they'll actually go to trial instead
of to some hidden prison somewhere and we'll find out the facts there.
I will say that if this was a credible threat, then the people who
cracked this case have my utmost respect. Don't mistake my skepticism
for some kind of un-American pro-terrorist thinking. It's not.
>
> If successful, this plot could have resulted in as many as 4,000
> innocent lives lost. Also, there was absolutely no need for anyone to
> be trained as a pilot in order to plant a bomb on the plane.
>
> You may think 4,000 lost lives is nothing to get excited about ("but
> are we making this out to be more than it is?") but I personally see
> no humor at all in it, ("Everytime we panic en masse a terrorist
> giggles like a schoolgirl. That is exactly the reaction they are
> trying to get."). I understand many people hate George Bush so much
> they refuse to believe we are living in a time of grave danger from
> radical Muslims, however, to trivialize such a grave threat to so many
> people is ignorant.
Find humor in everything, that's my philosophy. Except for the 21
suspects, nobody has been hurt here. However, a few million people have
been inconvenienced and the paranoia is running rampant. The financial
cost of this, even if it all stops now, will be huge. So fine, I'll
change it to "Everytime we panic en masse a terrorists wins." Hopefully
that's more acceptable to you.
My opinion of George Bush has nothing to do with my initial skepticism
about this. Do you trust the media? Did you hear about the guy who
doctored the photos of the burning buildings a few days ago? Have you
heard about the other photos he doctored? Do you trust a media that
claims to be unbiased when they obviously aren't? Do you trust people
who are frightened enough that they may not be completely rational about
this? Do you trust the people in our government not to make this into
more than it actually is because it serves their immediate purposes? I
don't.
>
> It is time to wake up and taste the coffee, we are involved in a real
> war with real people who hate us real bad! These people will kill
> innocent women and children and dance with glee over their success.
> They will even kill all the liberal crackpots who still believe we can
> love them into liking us and that they are less a threat to our
> country than our own government.
Terrorists are bad people and should be caught, yes. Lots of people
died during 9/11, sure. Should we really be using those facts to invade
Iraq when we knew it had no part in it? Isn't that dishonoring their
memories?
So the terrorists kill a few thousand people. Ten times that many die
from heart attacks. If not 100 times that many. Yet, our freedoms can
only be lost once. Don't give them up for some half-assed security
enhancements.
If a terrorist can no longer take a liquid explosive into the cabin,
what's stopping them from packing even more of it in their checked
baggage and detonating it with a remote that they placed in the keyless
remote they carry on their car keys?
What if the next plot involves explosives carried into the cabin in body
orifices? Should we all submit to a cavity search before boarding an
airplane? What if it's C4 woven into their clothes? Should we all
strip and wear paper gowns? What if they start sniping cars on random
highways? Should we just stay home?
My point is that every time we overreact they win. We should take
common-sense security approaches to things and rely on our law
enforcement personnel to stop these things. I hate to even suggest it,
but maybe we ought to take a good look at why so many of them are so
eager to take us out and try to resolve it at that level, too.
Paul
>
> Dick S.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> *To:* Vision2020 <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 11, 2006 8:05 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Coincidence?
>
> I don't know what J Ford is insinuating, but I for one would like
> to know more about this plot. Is it really a credible threat? I
> haven't seen the news lately, but from what I've heard it doesn't
> sound possible that they could have taken down an airliner with a
> small amount of some home-made liquid explosive. But maybe they
> are better at chemistry than I am. Maybe their intention was to
> gain access to the cockpit? Did they train as pilots? Because
> otherwise you'd be better off bringing your mp3 player and your
> bottle of shampoo to a rock concert or a mall.
>
> That's not to say that they shouldn't have the book thrown at them
> - but are we making this out to be more than it is?
>
> Everytime we panic en masse a terrorist giggles like a
> schoolgirl. That is exactly the reaction they are trying to get.
> Hence the name "terror"-ist.
>
> Paul
>
> Dick Sherwin wrote:
>
>>So, what are you suggesting, that there really was no plot to blow up any
>>planes? Do you think this whole story was made up? Please don't tell me
>>you are one of those idiots who believe the Jews blew up the WTC and no
>>plane ever struck the pentagon.
>>
>>Dick S.
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:01 AM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Coincidence?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Anyone else notice that the same day "World Trade Center" comes out,
>>>
>>>
>>England
>>
>>
>>>has to arrest terrorist for plotting to blow up 10 airplanes?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>J :]
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
>>>Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>>>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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