[Vision2020] Response to Hansen

Fri Aug 11 09:36:41 PDT 2006

Although days in school may seem a little simplisitic, when one observes 
the TIMSS data with our  nation's declining position in Math and Science 
relative to other developed nations, we find that our school system is 
based on the 180 day school year.  In 
the  high  performing  European  school systems, the number of  attendance 
classroom hours per day is about 2/3's of the U. S. counter part.

Recall, that the decade of life that requires the most sleep is from 10-20 
years of age. The national systems that outperform the U.S. average 211 
days of instruction.  jerry

At 12:50 PM 8/9/06, Donovan Arnold wrote:
>Hansen,
>
>MSD is wasting a great deal of money in everything they are doing. 1) Not 
>having year around school. 2) Starting teachers off at starvation wages 
>then raising them to 2x times the average household makes in Latah. 3) 
>Requiring courses that are useless in modern society.
>
>Answer to question two. Every business invests money in hiring and 
>training employees. The public can split the cost with the businesses. We 
>train a student to be a nurse, truck driver, HVAC, etc, upon hirer, that 
>business pays half the cost of the education of that student for that 
>specific skill learned, that money goes to the school to educate the next 
>student for a job. Many business have to front this whole cost of training 
>and educating themselves. It would help both the schools and the businesses.
>
>Answer to your third question: I would combine the first two years of 
>college with are regular education. You do that by starting the children 
>in school one year earlier and letting them out one year later. When 
>students went to college for a four year degree, two years would already 
>have been completed. Every student would leave school with a skill that 
>would translate to employment upon graduation. This is what school was 
>originally for, but somehow lost its purpose and focus.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>Question:  Specifically speaking, how is the Moscow School District 
>“wasting money in our current school system?”
>
>Mr. Arnold stated:
>
>“Second, they can get the private sector to help out in many job fields. A 
>company wants nothing more than a bunch of highly trained workers straight 
>out of school.”
>
>Question #1:  Who are “they”?
>
>Question #2:  Specifically speaking, how can they “get the private sector 
>to help out in many job fields?”
>
>By “straight out of school”, do you mean high school or college?  Judging 
>by your daunting support for a WalMart Super Center, I assume that you 
>mean “straight out of high school” as most (if not all) college graduates 
>are seeking jobs that evolve into professional careers.  If this is true, 
>perhaps you would strongly support the concept of vocational high schools 
>(which are fairly common in Europe) which would produce “highly trained 
>workers straight out of school”
>
>Your thoughts?
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>"Only by going too far can one possibly find out how far one can go."
>
>- Jon Dyer
>
>----------
>From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] 
>On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
>Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:10 AM
>To: Tom Ivie; keely emerinemix; gweitz at moscow.com; ringoshirl at moscow.com; 
>vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Minimum wage
>
>Tom,
>
>You can pay for it by getting the MSD to stop wasting money in our current 
>school system. Second, they can get the private sector to help out in many 
>job fields. A company wants nothing more than a bunch of highly trained 
>workers straight out of school. Third, if the MSD would come up with a 
>proposal that didn't sound like something contrived during a high school 
>pot smoking circle they might be able gain community support.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>How do you pay for that when we can't even pass bonds for buildings and 
>the state has to step in to fund that?
>
>Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>. . ."under Donovan's plan, parents will have tons more free time --
>what with being excused from the kinds of things most of us signed up for as
>parents -- and will then form roaming street gangs or start smoking or
>having sex."-- Keely Mix
>
>
>Keely,
>
>I know you are the expert on education being on the school board and all. 
>But, as I understand it, all parents have already been having sex.
>
>_DJA
>
>keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
>Of course, under Donovan's plan, parents will have tons more free time --
>what with being excused from the kinds of things most of us signed up for as
>parents -- and will then form roaming street gangs or start smoking or
>having sex.
>
>keely
>
>
>From: Donovan Arnold
>To: Jerry Weitz , Shirley Ringo ,
>vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Minimum wage
>Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Jerry,
>
>I agree with you 100% regarding the workforce training. The school system
>needs to start kids one year earlier, let them out one year later ,and use
>those two extra years to train youth a job skill, good work ethic, how to
>search for and find a job, keep a job, and advance in that field.
>
>They also need to teach youth how to do taxes, be a responsible member of
>the community, build social skills, know first aid and establish healthy
>eating habits, and all about how credit and debit works.
>
>In other words, schools need to teach youth the things they are going to
>need to know about living in modern society and doing well. So many things
>you learn in school today seem pointless when you get out and never use it.
>You also find yourself hurting in other areas when you are expected to know
>how to do something in life but nobody ever taught you.
>
>Thanks for your email.
>
>Best,
>
>_DJA
>
>Jerry Weitz wrote:
>Raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $6.15 will not help in real
>inflation-adjusted buying power--it is too small of an increase. So let’s
>discuss the fundamentals. As Virginia’s former Democratic governor Mark
>Warner’s track record illustrates, skills training in our high schools
>would help increase wages for Idaho’s workforce and encourage more jobs.
>With the push for community colleges in the urban areas of Idaho, I believe
>that our local high schools could become the rural equivalent of community
>college. This would cost money and would require a willingness to change
>the current high school structure.
>
>The state legislature’s current focus on shifting school funding from
>property taxes to the sales tax (the current maintenance and operations
>debate) misses the point. Instead of focusing on ways to shift funds, I
>would urge consideration for increased funding for the creation/maintenance
>of skills centers in local high schools. Rather than seeking a balanced
>taxation approach, the Idaho Education Association has promoted a tax shift
>to the sales tax, which sends a confusing message.
>
>When one examines France, with a high minimum wage, a large
>under-skilled/inexperienced segment of its youth, guaranteed employment
>contracts, unbending unionization, top down regulations, etc., one observes
>high unemployment, a high cost of living, and extreme social unrest.
>
>What works: 1) create/maintain superior education for both the
>college-bound and the non-college-bound, 2) invest in infrastructure, 3) be
>friendly to business, 4) be environmentally wise, and 5) do this without
>going deeply into debt, which requires prioritization. Ireland has
>followed the above policies with exceptional success. We should follow the
>lead of former governor Warner and Virginia’s Republican legislature and
>make these policies non-partisan. From what I’ve learned, Larry Grant, our
>district’s Democratic candidate for Congress, seems to understand this
>non-partisan, middle of the road approach.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>
>At 11:11 AM 8/7/06, Shirley Ringo wrote:
>Visionaries:
>
>
>I cannot resist the urge to weigh in on the minimum wage issue. I
>proposed legislation during the most recent legislative session to raise
>the minimum wage to $6.15. It received very little support from
>Republicans. (Our District 6 Republicans did support it, and
>Representative Trail will co-sponsor the effort with us again next year.)
>
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
>
>We plan to try again next year, at an amount above $6.15.
>
>
>
>Without getting into the usual arguments, it’s unacceptable to have a
>minimum wage that leaves those paid at that level in cruel poverty.
>Lawmakers have neglected maintenance on minimum wage levels. In 1968, the
>minimum wage meant something positive to families. In inflation-adjusted
>dollars, it has lost nearly 40% of its value between 1968 and now.
>
>
>
>According to polling, the vast majority of Americans believe the minimum
>wage should be higher. I believe eighteen states have a minimum wage
>higher than the $5.15 federal level, which has not been raised since 1997.
>Some of these states have used the initiative process to get results, where
>state legislators would not act on it. In some of these states, there has
>been significant help from Republican leaders.
>
>
>
>Many claims of negative consequences do not seem to be true. One of the
>claims is that jobs will be lost. In the majority of states that have
>raised the minimum wage, there has in fact been an increase in jobs. (We
>can’t claim the wage increase caused more jobs, but the decrease some
>predicted didn’t happen.) An increase in employee productivity and less
>absenteeism was reported where the pay level increased.
>
>
>
>On the inflation issue, "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
>/>Florida reported after
>raising their minimum wage a very minor increase in some prices. Since a
>relatively small percent of the employed receive minimum wage, one might
>not expect a dramatic increase in prices. (We can expect a “ripple effect”
>though, where employers will raise wages to be more competitive.) One year
>ago in Idaho, according to the Department of Commerce and Labor, 32,000
>Idahoans received a wage between $5.15 and $6.15 per hour. While Idaho
>State Government employee pay is entirely too low, almost none of them
>receive pay as low as $5.15 per hour. I don’t consider it an undisputed
>fact that there will be significant inflation, but we can certainly study
>the issue in the states that have raised the minimum wage.
>
>
>
>Workers who receive minimum wage live from paycheck to paycheck. (If
>they can make it stretch.) They have no discretionary money. What are
>they to do when their taxes go up? Just more water in the gravy, I guess.
>At the minimum wage, it takes more than one full day to earn the money to
>buy fifteen gallons of gasoline.
>
>
>
>While I continue to study the issue, I am convinced that some of the
>negative consequences of raising the minimum wage are over-stated. I am
>also steadfast in my belief that it is unacceptable to value people and
>families so little that we allow such a low level of compensation for their
>efforts and to address their needs.
>
>
>
>Shirley
>
>
>
>
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