[Vision2020] Citizen Ament versus Councilman Ament
Tom Ivie
the_ivies3 at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 27 10:52:47 PDT 2006
Donovan,
Anyone who KNOWS me, knows that I am not a liberal. I am a moderate, at times disenfrachised by both parties. Perhaps a progressive, if you prefer labels. But everyone that KNOWS me, also knows that I am very fiscally conservative. Do the two of those ideals collide? Yes! I also profess my Christianity publicly. You might be surprised to know that some of the "liberals" on this forum actually attend fairly conservative denominational churches. I am proud to say that Aaron is a friend of mine. Does he go to church with me? No. Do I condemn him because he doesn't? No. Does he not like me because I am a Christian? No. For you to not be willing to sit down and discuss ideas and ideologies with him makes you as closed minded as you say he is. Just because a person is willing to sit down and discuss ideas doesn't mean minds have to be changed. Sometimes that is the end result. Other times, it leads to an understanding of where the person is coming from in their b!
eliefs.
The understanding part doesn't mean that you have to agree with their stance on an issue but at least you know where they are coming from. You know, it is possible for people to get along with each other and still disagree on issues. Aaron is a moderate on most issues, conservative on some, and a liberal on others. Look at this from another perspective. I have had my moments with many Council people. I will openly tell you that I voted for Marshall Comstock, twice. Do I agree with everything he did? No. Jon Kimberling was a fine Council person. I actually like his demeaner and thoughtfulness. But I did disagree with him on a particular issue. I talked to him about it and discussed it with him. We didn't agree on the issue. I still like him, end of story. Some people will only vote for a person because of their stance on a particular issue. That is just a political fact. But the other side to that coin is the fact that some people will look at the whole pict!
ure too.
They may disagree with a particular issue the candidate stands for and yet vote for them because they like where they stand on other issues. I will tell you that I have done both. Some people voted for Aaron because of where he stands in regards to NSA being downtown. Some people voted for Aaron because of where he stands on the Third Street issue. Some people voted for Aaron because of his openness and accessibility. While others voted for him not because of those things, but because of other values he holds. They are all his constituents and for different and various reasons, not just one.
Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
Tom,
What you and so many liberals in Moscow fail to understand is that conservatives do not have an monopoly on bigotry and discrimination. Aaron is the same as Jesse Helms only toward Christians and conservative thinkers.
He is not a moderate, and he is not an open minded person. So I would not sit down and have coffee with him, as it would be a waste of my time unless I wanted to do it only for extracting his ideas, which is again, a waste of time. I think the guy is an embarrassment to the office he holds and to the other people in city government. I cannot thank enough the Mayor and other council members for blocking his wild crazy and bigoted ideas and comments.
He may love Moscow, but he sure dislikes a lot of the people in it.
Take Care,
_DJA
Tom Ivie <the_ivies3 at yahoo.com> wrote: Wow! Donovan, have you met Aaron Ament? Some would characterize Aaron as an extreme liberal because he openly voices his opinions. I find that refreshing. In my opinion, there is nothing worse than a politician that won't state where they stand on the issues. With Aaron, you always know where he stands. If you would take the time to get to know Aaron, he is very much a centrist. Believe it or not, he is a fiscal conservative with social values. That puts him right in the middle of the mix, a moderate. Another refreshing thing about Aaron is that he is very accessible. He likes to sit down and discuss ideas with constituents. Give him a call and meet him for coffee. He loves coffee and Moscow! -Tom
Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
"I'll give you an ex!
ample:
for more than a decade, Jesse Helms was a
commentator on WRAL-TV in Raleigh, North Carolina. You complain about
Aaron having referred (on his radio show) to NSA as an education free
zone? Jesse Helms spouted off about miscegenation, the joys of
segregation, his hatred for gays, lesbians, non-Christians, and
Democrats, you name it." _Joan Opyr
Interesting that Aaron Ament's bigotry can only be defended by
contrasting his behavior to racist Senator Jesse Helms. And
that contrast is from his friends.
Take Care,
_DJA
Joan Opyr <joanopyr at moscow.com> wrote: Dear Visionaries:
Greg Dickison has filed a public records request asking for, among
other things, recordings of Liberal Island, a radio talk show that
Aaron Ament hosted before he was elected to public office. Th! e key
word here is "before." When Aaron announced his candidacy, he left
KRFP and stopped doing his radio show. Why? Conflict of interest.
It's bad form to run for office with a megaphone in your hand. Also,
the KRFP board (and the FCC) have rules about these sorts of things;
Aaron has cheerfully and correctly followed these rules.
About Gary Crabtree's questions regarding whether or not Aaron's
statements on Liberal Island should oblige him to recuse himself from
the New St. Andrews zoning vote: they're good questions, but the
answer is no. Unless Greg Dickison, Doug Farris, or Gary can point to
something/anything Aaron has said or done to disqualify himself in this
matter since he ceased to be a private citizen and became an elected
official, then there are no grounds for recusal.
I'll give you an example: for more than a decade, Jesse Helms was a
commentator on WRAL-TV in Raleigh, North Carolina. You complain about !
Aaron having referred (on his radio show) to NSA as an education free
zone? Jesse Helms spouted off about miscegenation, the joys of
segregation, his hatred for gays, lesbians, non-Christians, and
Democrats, you name it. When he decided to run for the U. S. Senate,
he stepped down from his job at WRAL and became Candidate Helms rather
than Talk Show Helms. Not once during his four terms in the U. S.
Senate did he recuse himself from a vote on civil rights, on employment
nondiscrimination, on religious issues, gay and lesbian issues, AIDS
funding, or anything else about which he'd spoken as a TV commentator.
What grounds do Greg, Doug Farris, et al, have for demanding Aaron
recuse himself in the NSA matter? The personal opinions he expressed
as a private citizen? Not good enough. You might also, while you're
at it, ask Bob Stout to step aside on matters relating to Moscow's
police union -- he is strongly in favor of the police! union and, in
fact, campaigned on this issue. Let's also Jon Weber to step aside on
matters related to appliance sales as he co-owns the Sears store. John
Dickinson could step aside if anything comes up having to do with the
Kenworthy, as he's the founder of Sirius Idaho Theatre, and Linda Pall
should never, ever speak on legal matters, as she's a practicing
attorney. As for Mayor Chaney, well, God help us if anything to do
with nursing should come before the City Council because she's a real
live RN. I'll bet she has strong opinions on the subject of decubitus
ulcers.
Finally, about recordings of Liberal Island -- until last fall, when
KRFP began podcasting over the Internet, the station did not (as far as
I know) record any of its programs. Not mine; not Aaron's; not even
Emily Poor's wonderful Americana show. If any recordings exist, it's
because friends recorded the show off the radio. I have copies of my
show bec! ause Tom Hansen very generously records it each and every week
and makes it available on the web for download. This means that my
grandmother in Raleigh can listen to me tell scandalous stories about
the family and do impersonations of her views in her accent. (I love
my grandmother to pieces, but she's often unintentionally hilarious.)
I am specifically named in Greg's public records request. He seems to
be under the impression that there's a broad conspiracy against NSA
involving Aaron and a bunch of unrelated folk -- I only know about half
of the people Greg has named in his PR request -- a conspiracy that
might have been preserved for time and eternity via recordings of
Liberal Island and Aaron's City of Moscow email account. As fishing
trips go, this one wouldn't pull up a tiddler. It's goofy thinking,
and it's paranoid -- it also reveals more about the inner workings of
Christ Church than any critique I've ever offered. Bu! t, to show that I
don't do conspiracies, that I have nothing to be ashamed of and
certainly nothing to hide, I'll make Greg an unconditional offer -- I
have two personal recordings of Liberal Island. One is Aaron's
interview with Bill London, dated April 5th, 2005. The other is
Aaron's interview with me. I went on Liberal Island in December of
2004 to talk about Moscow's 49% Rally, a protest that took place on
George W. Bush's second inauguration day. (If you want to know more
about the 49% Rally, either visit my website and go to the links page,
or Google your way through Dale Courtney's blog. He was at the rally,
typing notes and taking pictures.) I will send Greg copies of both of
these shows, and he can do with them what he will.
If he'd like a complete set of The Auntie Establishment and Brother
Carl Show, I'd be happy to send him that as well. Free of charge. We
play some damned good music on the show, I must say, a! nd anyone with an
ear for melodious voices should be delighted to have the dulcet tones
of Brother Carl playing over his or her stereo. Carl is Moscow's
answer to Barry White.
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
www.joanopyr.com
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