[Vision2020] Vision2020 in the yard?

[Art Deco]

Bruce, et al,

A short summary and an agreement:

Idaho is an open access state, one of the very few left.  Basically, except for agricultural land in cultivation, unless private is posted in a very particular manner, anyone who has not received a private, written no trespassing notice in the last year can trespass with impunity.  If the property owner or their authorized agent finds someone on their property and orders them off, then if the person so ordered does not leave, they are then trespassing.

Below the line is a recent post urging changing the law to be more protective of property.  Following that is the response from Senator Gary Schroeder.  His response is quite revealing.  For all the loud lip service Idaho's Republicans give to private property rights, when it comes to doing something to effectively enforce those rights with a modern trespassing law, Idaho's Republicans are invisible, and as you can see from Schroeder's response, pathetically beholden to and in fear of special interests groups.

Besides hunters and ORVs, Moscow Mountain property owners (and others) are now facing a new trespassing peril -- paint gun games and their resulting messes and safety problems.


The Wilson & Family's Cult & Cash Machine even objects of people taking pictures from public property such as streets, alleys, and sidewalks.  For those interested a long Word document, which describes such an incident. is available.  Those wishing to read it can email me at waf at moscow.com for a copy.  If there had been an arrest in this case, the City of Moscow and some members of the MPD would be much poorer today.


Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

_____________________________________________________
Previous post on Trespassing:


Mark, Phil, Dan, et al,

I agree with Mark that part of the problem is Idaho's trespassing statutes.  Idaho is one of the last open access states.  Except for agricultural land in cultivation, unless private is posted in a particular manner, anyone who has not received a private no trespassing notice in the last year can trespass with impunity.

In recent years the sheriff's office has greatly stepped up its enforcement in certain county areas, an action almost all of we property owners on Moscow Mountain greatly appreciate.  In the case of some motorized recreation, users can be cited with vandalism/damage to property if they
cause ground and/or tree damage even on unposted property.

Changing Idaho's trespass laws is a huge undertaking and one for which the legislature has shown little interest in addressing in the past.

When I lived in Boundary County, which was then experiencing the same kind of motorized recreation/unsafe hunting problems that we see in Latah County now, a number of us proposed a tiered state trespassing statute.  Briefly:

1.    Unarmed, non-motorized trespassing would continued to be allowed unless the land was posted.  The posting requirements would be changed so as to not be such a burden to the landowner.

2.    Armed and/or motorized trespassed would only be allowed if clearly posted for such or with the permission of the landowner.

3.    The third violation of 1 above in a ten year period would be a felony;  the second violation of 2 above in a ten year period would be a felony.

4.    Certain civil actions would be simplified in order for landowners to collect damages for trespass and/or damage.

The rational for such a tiered system is based on the amount of damage or threat to safety each kind of trespass generally engenders and/or for which history documents abuse.  The legislators in that area of northern Idaho at that time, although in agreement with the proposed changes, would not proposed them since the reaction from motorized users groups and hunters would be extremely adverse to their re-election chances.

I wonder if our current legislative representatives would be willing to try something like this now.


Wayne A. Fox
1009 Karen Lane
PO Box 9421
Moscow, ID  83843

(208) 882-7975
waf at moscow.com

__________________________________________________________
Response to the above from Senator Gary Schroeder:


From: "Gary Schroeder" <Gary at hideandfur.com>
To: "'Art Deco'" <deco at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] LMT -- Everyone hears this tree fall


This need to be co-ordinated with the ATV groups.  

G.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce and Jean Livingston" <jeanlivingston at turbonet.com>
To: "Craine Kit" <kcraine at verizon.net>; "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
Cc: "Vision2020 Moscow" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 in the yard?


>I suppose it is relevant what the criminal law defines as trespass, and I 
> don't have the time to research all of the other laws that might conceivably 
> apply to the alleged Jackie Woolf photography shoot, but wandering around on 
> anyone's private property without permission seems wrong to me.  If there 
> isn't an applicable law, "there oughta be a  law." One ought to ask 
> permission, notwithstanding the lack of posted "no trespassing" signs, and 
> if nobody is home to give you permission, you ought to walk back down the 
> sidewalk from the front door that wasn't answered and leave the property 
> immediately without wandering around on someone else's property.
> 
> Bruce Livingston
> 
> 
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