keely's right arm? Re: [Vision2020] adventures in pro-family politics

Ted Moffett starbliss at
Sun Apr 16 15:01:33 PDT 2006

Keely et. al.

I took up keely's offer to give her right arm "to see an evangelical
pro-family group devote itself to battling domestic violence."  I really
need a left arm right now due to an injury, but maybe a right arm could be
adapted with the wonders of modern surgery.

First up in my search was a hit from:

Yes, the group and church involved are battling domestic violence, but this
web site touts "Women Ministries" and quotes a women pastor.  Can this fit
under the category of "evangelicals," or are women pastors totally banned
under the evangelical "banner?"  I'm not sure if this religious
organization will fulfill keely's quest to surrender her right arm.

Another hit was:

Oh no, this is way off!  An international multifaith organization founded by
another women pastor!  They no doubt are part of the secular humanist
conspiracy to undermine the eternal rule of patriarchy, despite the
religious and spiritual posings, with a Buddha pictured at the top, it looks
like.  That ain't "evangelical."  Dang.  I really need that arm.

If the meaning of "evangelical" can include women pastors, maybe that first

Ah!  Here we go!  They have the word "evangelical" in the name of their
church, Evangelical Lutheran Church, and they focus on domestic violence.
Maybe this will do:

*II. Domestic Violence: A Call for Help
[image: Women in support group]*Synopsis: "Domestic Violence: A Call for
Help," takes a look at how the people of ELCA congregations in Prince
Georges County, Md., are coming to grips with domestic violence in their
community. You will meet Lt. Louis J. Oertly, a member of St. Nicolas
Lutheran Church, Prince Frederic, Md., and a member of a special domestic
violence task force of the Prince George's County Maryland Sheriff's Office.
You will be with him as he handles domestic violence calls. You'll also meet
Linda Stephens, a member of the staff of Truth Evangelical Church, a new
ELCA mission start, as she counsels victims of domestic violence. Domestic
violence is a problem that cuts across economic, class and racial lines. It
is an issue in every community across the nation. This MOSAIC segment can
help you and your congregation deal with the problem in your community.

Maybe I've got that right arm!  But I'm full of doubt, because it appears
this "Evangelical Lutheran Church" may be a "liberal" impostor, misusing the
term "evangelical."  Read the following info that mentions this church as
one of the "mainline or liberal denominations:"

Usage of the term "Evangelical" in North America:

In North America, "*Evangelical*" does not have a unique meaning that is
acceptable to all. Various groups and individuals define it as a specific
conservative Christian system of beliefs, or a type of religious experience,
or a commitment to proselytize the unsaved, or as a style of religious
service, or as having a personal "*walk with God*," or as a group of
denominations, or as a personal acceptance of a "*biblical
*," or as some combination of the above.

In a study comparing Evangelical and mainline denominations, a Princeton
University study included the following as Evangelical denominations :
of God, Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, black Protestants, African
Methodist Episcopal, African Methodist Episcopal Zion; Church of Christ,
Churches of God in Christ, Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, National
Baptist Church, National Progressive Baptist Church, Nondenominational,
Pentecostal denominations, *and* the Presbyterian Church in America*. *1 *Many
theologians would also include the conservative faction within such mainline
denominations as the *Episcopal Church, USA, *the *Presbyterian Church (USA)
*, and the *United Methodist Church*.

The names of a few American mainline or liberal denominations contain the
word "Evangelical." Of these, the largest notable is the *Evangelical
Lutheran Church in America* (ELCA). However, the *Wisconsin Evangelical
Lutheran Synod, *which as a similar name to the ELCA, is a conservative
Protestant group.


The approach to defining "evangelical" described above is perhaps too broad
and open ended...The same web site narrows the definition down when they
present this analysis:

Usage of "Evangelical" on this web site:

Since about 95% of our site's visitors are residents of North America, we
will use the following definition:

*Evangelical:* "*The conservative wing of Protestant Christianity comprising
many denominations and other faith groups that tightly hold to historical
Christian creeds, beliefs and practices*." This umbrella term includes
Identity <>, Fundamentalist,
Pentecostal <> and
Reconstructionist <>, some
Baptist, and many other faith groups, as noted

Most theologians recognize two other main wings of
mainline and liberal denominations.

We realize that this definition deviates from that used by many Christians
-- particularly in Europe. But, until a consensus is reached on definitions,
confusion will continue.

I suspect from this more narrowed "conservative" definition the Evangelical
Lutheran Church may not qualify as truly "evangelical."

And many "evangelical" churches do not allow women pastors, like in my first
possibility, though consider this article mentioning women leading
"evangelical" churches:

"We had them in the 1920s, but not now," said Julie Ingersoll, an associate
professor of religious studies at the University of North Florida who is
author of the book *Evangelical Christian Women: War Stories in the Gender
Battles. *

Aimee Semple McPherson, an evangelist who founded Los Angeles' pentecostal
Foursquare Gospel Church back in the 1920s, is perhaps the best example of
the kind of female evangelical powerhouse who's missing today, Ingersoll
said. In her day, McPherson was as well known as a Pat Robertson or Billy
Graham. Today, even McPherson's own Foursquare church has few women in
leadership positions, Ingersoll said.

Maybe a women pastor can lead an "evangelical" church, though I'm still not
sure if I have found a truly evangelical church that focuses on domestic
violence, given the confusion that continues, according to the
religioustolerance web site, as to the definition of "evangelical."

How can I pin keely down to get that right arm?

Anyway, the specs may not be sufficient for my needs.

Keely, can you lift 100 lbs. to shoulder level?

Even if not, with some weight training...

Ted Moffett

On 4/12/06, keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at> wrote:
> Visionaires,
> Dale Courtney's blog has an interesting item on the Family Research
> Council's pronouncement that illegal immigration is now
> Number-4-with-a-Bullet on the official list of "pro-family" concerns,
> right
> after abortion, judicial activisim, and "defense of marriage."
> Now I should confess to some bias here:  the FRC is an arm of Focus on the
> Family, whose publications are not allowed in our household, and generally
> is an example of "evangelicals missing the point entirely." Therefore, I'm
> inclined to disregard pretty much everything they say.  Gary Bauer, former
> FRC head, doesn't speak for me, and neither does the current
> gang.  Further,
> I'm disinclined to embrace the Idaho Values Alliance, and it seems
> extraordinarily unlikely that Dale and I will ever agree on much of
> anything
> political.
> Still, it's hard not to comment.  First of all, I would give my right arm
> to
> see an evangelical "pro-family" group devote itself to battling domestic
> violence, rape, child abuse, and subjugation of women, which are real
> threats to families but would lead to the inescapable conclusion that many
> "Christian" homes are dangerous for women and children.  Not much
> likelihood
> of successful fundraising there, I guess, what with the unseemly behavior
> of
> many evangelical patriarchialists.
> Second, immigrant communities, while not inherently Utopian, generally
> prove
> to have lower rates of divorce, higher rates of multi-generational
> families,
> greater quality care for children and elderly relatives, and are typically
> much more family-oriented in leisure time pursuits than are other
> families.
> I can affirm anecdotally that by virtually any measure of "pro-family"
> activity, the immigrant community in which I worked exceeded that of my
> current neighbors, my former Anglo neighbors, and my own extended family,
> which has managed to do a lot to pollute the ideal of family in and around
> North Little Rock, Arkansas, for at least three generations.
> All in all, it's enough to make me wonder if "pro-family" has now become
> so
> utterly devoid of meaning as to become as useful in describing political
> movements as "well-reasoned and profound" is in describing certain blogs.
> keely
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
> get there!
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>          mailto:Vision2020 at
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...

More information about the Vision2020 mailing list