[Vision2020] Not a city resident (response to Ted)

[Donovan Arnold]

"Donovan (et. al.. .) You did not answer the question
I asked."--Ted

Sorry, I will try to be more clear for you, Ted. 

The answer is "No" Ted, I can think of no reason why
anyone living outside the City of Moscow MUST have
legal influence over city code so long as it is
following county, state, and federal law.

Was that clear? I hope you do not think that was
dodging your question. NO, that is the answer. If you
are confused, I will say it again, "NO".

Murder, harassment of children off or on school
grounds (regardless of reason), assault, theft, and
running over children crossing the street (especially
crossing at any intersection in the state), all
examples you gave, are all against state statue, not
city code. And giving outside residents influence over
city code has ZERO effect on them. They are all still
100% illegal. 

You are complaining about a non-city resident not
having influence over STATE STATUE, not city code. I
never stated they should not have control of
determining state statue, just city code.

City laws do not determine that many things. They
determine how long a dog leash can be. The license tag
on a cat. If the houses on B St. can be blue or
yellow, and how tall the antenna can be on your house.
It does not determine if a child can be assaulted or
if somebody can steal your bike. Legitimate concerns
for a parent? Yes! But does it have anything to do
with the city code? No.

The City is very limited in what it can do. It cannot
even add a crosswalk across the Pullman-Moscow highway
so UI students can cross.  

I would also like to reiterate that the School
District does not have to place schools inside the
city limits which would make them 100% free from any
unjust city code that parents may feel their children
are the victims of, be it the tough leash law for
canines, or the do not spit on the sidewalk
restriction. 

"And Donovan must know of course that this is a
ridiculous idea to move MSD outside Moscow City
limits..."

Really now? Humm, are you calling the MSD proposal of
a new High School outside the city limits a ridiculous
idea? Well, I guess that is something we are in
agreement on, even if not for the same reasons. 

I will concede you have a valid point that a bus
driver must follow city speed limits when entering the
city. But they must do that as well when entering any
other city or county on field trips and visiting other
cities for athletic competitions. In addition, state
highway speed limits, which are the main roads they
travel, are controlled by the state, not city code.

Another valid point that you had was that teenagers
must dress in accordance with city decency code when
in the city, and training in the city streets. But
their uniforms also have to do this when visiting
another city in competition. Should parents get a vote
in other cities they visit too?

As to your concern of addressing law enforcement when
state law is being broken, I will say this: A parent
or legal guardian, does have the moral, ethical, and
legal responsibility to inform city, county, and state
officials of violations of county, state, and federal
law regarding the endangerment of their or another
child(ren). State law requires that city officials
enforce and follow state law. So parents always have
this right to inform local officials that state and
federal law is not being followed, even if they are
not US citizens-so they do not need to be able to
legally determine city code, it has nothing to do with
city code. 
  
"consider student X, a 15 year old attending Moscow
High School, crossing crosswalks with no crossing
guards on Washington St. by the Federal
Building,"--Ted

If 15 year-olds still need an adult to help them cross
the street it probably is not the city that you should
be complaining about Ted. Most people are able to
safely cross the street well before attaining
sophomore status in high school. 

You confuse state statue with city code, Ted. Your
examples only include non-residential parents where
their children have been victimized by extreme
violations of state law, which has nothing to do with
city code. 

You also completely ignore the fact that allowing
residents outside the city to determine what city
codes, taxes, fees, and fines people in the city must
follow without having to follow the codes themselves
or pay those fees and taxes. That is a huge injustice
to city dwellers.

What a set up you would have for the people living
outside Moscow. They get to vote, participate in
Moscow city government, determine local policy, but do
not have to follow the rules or pay all the taxes and
fees. Kind of like the Bush Family. 

Thankfully, the government, and who gets to vote, is
set up the way I like it.

Thanks for the laughs,

Donovan J Arnold



--- Tbertruss at aol.com wrote:

> 
> Donovan et. al.
> 
> You did not answer the question I asked.
> 
> This is the question I asked:
> 
> "Does someone who lives in the Moscow School
> District,
> with children or grandchildren attending Moscow
> public
> schools, have any valid reasons to be concerned
> about
> the affairs of the city where their children attend
> school?"
> 
> Please consider this is from the point of view of a
> parent who may have 
> concerns about the city in which their children
> attend school, in other words, the 
> question should be addressed with specifics about
> concerns parents have, such 
> as: traffic safety, safety from theft, violence or
> hateful harassment, or city 
> code that their child should follow on or off school
> grounds, or city code 
> that the parent may think is somehow amiss, etc.
> 
> And you answered:
> 
> First, the City of Moscow does not have, or control,
> any public schools. 
> 
> Are "any valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a 
> city where their children attend school" addressed
> in this point?  No.  And 
> furthermore, I think you are wrong to state the City
> of Moscow has no control over 
> MSD.  A Moscow Police officer cannot ticket a MSD
> school bus driver for 
> speeding inside the city limits?  A Moscow Police
> officer will not arrest MSD 
> students breaking city law, or other law, on MSD
> property?  If this is true, please 
> provide the details of the legal restrictions that
> stop the MPD from 
> arresting MSD students who might, for example, bring
> illegal drugs on school grounds?  
> These laws may be state laws, but the way in which
> they are enforced on MSD 
> property is the province of the MPD, unless you can
> prove me wrong.  I believe 
> that MSD does follow, and is expected to follow,
> many laws from city code, 
> which contradicts the thread running through your
> argument that somehow MSD is 
> some sort of legal island separate from the City of
> Moscow.
> 
> Second, the public schools that are located inside
> Moscow are controlled by the Idaho State School
> District 281, not the city.
> 
> Are "any valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a 
> city where their children attend school" addressed
> in this point?  No.
> 
> So, logically, it would not follow that the parent
> be
> given control of a government that does not control
> the school when it is the school they want control
> over. They need control of the school district.
> 
> So, logically, yes, I support a legal guardian being
> able to vote and have some say in the school
> district.
> 
> Are "valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a city 
> where their children attend school" addressed in
> this point?  No.
> 
> If a parent has children attending school within a
> city, the parent has a right and say of how the
> school
> operates and functions. But if the parent does not
> live in the city, the parent does not have a say in
> how the city operates and functions.
> 
> Are "any valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a 
> city where their children attend school" addressed
> in this point?  No.  Again, 
> you cannot accurately and factually make this clear
> and precise a separation 
> between the City of Moscow and MSD regarding the
> valid concerns a parent may 
> have when their child is attending MSD in the City
> of Moscow.
> 
> If a parent that does not like the way a city
> operates
> and functions, lives outside the city, and has their
> child is in a school in the city, they can vote to
> move the school outside the jurisdiction of the
> city. 
> 
> Are "valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a city 
> where their children attend school" addressed in
> this point?  No.  And Donovan 
> must know of course that this is a ridiculous idea
> to move MSD outside Moscow 
> City limits... 
> 
> Might I also be so bold, Ted, as to point out that
> the
> person complaining about city law was not
> complaining
> about schools, but about city code, and not for
> allowing schools, but getting rid of them.  
> 
> Are "valid reasons for a parent to be concerned
> about the affairs of a city 
> where their children attend school" addressed in
> this point?  No.  And your 
> description of the intentions of Rose regarding her
> activism in Moscow are unfair 
> and inaccurate, in the extreme. 
> 
> You win today's award for political spin in the
> great tradition of 
> politicians everywhere who make answering questions
> without really answering them an art 
> form of elegant deception.
> 
> Now, to address my own question, since it is obvious
> you want to avoid it, 
> consider student X, a 15 year old attending Moscow
> High School, crossing 
> crosswalks with no crossing guards on Washington St.
> by the Federal Building, 
> crosswalks that I regard as truly hazardous, based
> on vast personal experience, as 
> she/he takes their lunch hour.  Some parents with a
> high level of concern for 
> the well being of their child might wish to address
> the MOSCOW CITY TRAFFIC 
> LAWS, AND/OR MOSCOW POLICE ENFORCEMENT OF PEDESTRIAN
> SAFETY, but alas, one local 
> outspoken activist insists they have no right to
> comment to the Chief of Police 
> that the MPD focus more on crosswalk safety, because
> the parent in question 
> lives one nanometer outside the city limits.  
> 
> And student X, who happens to be outspokenly Gay,
> has been approached by 
> other youth in downtown Moscow, youth who informed
> student X that they are being 
> led into grievous sin by being Gay, for which the
> penalties will be severe, if 
> not on earth then in the afterlife, as they surround
> and intimidate, pushing 
> and shoving. After hearing of this incident, the
> parent of student X decides to 
> approach the MOSCOW CITY COUNCIL to encourage a more
> explicit and clear hate 
> crimes statement, or even new city code addressing
> hate crimes, to prevent the 
> harassment of their child and/or to educate the
> public more explicitly that 
> such behavior is reprehensible.  But again, the same
> outspoken local activist 
> declares that because the parent involved in this
> incident lives one nanometer 
> outside the city limits, they have no business
> speaking before the MOSCOW CITY 
> COUNCIL, regarding hate crimes against their child.
> 
> Yes, I recall you insisting that the above examples
> should be handled as 
> merely a Moscow School District problem, so perhaps
> you think either student X 
> should not leave the school grounds for lunch in
> downtown Moscow, or be 
> accompanied by crosswalk guards, etc., supplied by
> the Moscow School District, or other 
> guards to stop personal harassment.
> 
> But these examples just scratch the surface of the
> various circumstances 
> where the behavior of a minor in the Moscow School
> District may involve the legal 
> apparatus of the City of Moscow, that may thus
> involve the parent of this 
> minor attending school in Moscow, a parent who in
> this example lives outside the 
> city limits.
> 
=== message truncated ===>
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