[Vision2020] Re: Not a city resident (Donovan Arnold)

[Donovan Arnold]

Mr. Joe,

Had you bothered to read my previous 800 emails on
this subject with Ted, you would have seen that I had
said I fully supported each person's right to freedom
of speech.

So I will clarify my statement for the professor;

"If the parent does not live in the city, the parent
does not have a LEGAL say in how the city operates
insofar as the city is legally operating within the
confines of the country, state, and federal law."

I do not want people outside Moscow determining city
code. That is the way the law is now, and that is the
way I like it.

You wrote,  "Doesn't it follow that no one has a right
to criticize a jurisdiction unless they live in that
jurisdiction?"

Everyone has a right to criticize New Orleans
government Joe. But you do no have a right to vote for
city policy or to vote for those that establish it,
unless you become a resident of that city. Nor should
you be going to city council meetings and saying that
you are a concerned citizen of the community demanding
changes to the city code and personally attacking
local leaders because they take an opposite view from
you, a non-resident. That is dishonest. 

"As Mr. Donovan has pointed out, most public schools
fall under the jurisdiction of the state. Unless we
live in that state, we can't be critical of its
schools."

You seem to confuse the terms, "be critical", with the
term "the right to participate". Joe, they are not
synonyms. They might mean the same to you, but not to
people that participate. 

Second, I am not a conservative. I vomit when the
federal leaders of this nation speak and implement
their policies. You, and several other far leftists in
this town seem to believe that people are either in
agreement with you far lefts liberal elitists or in
agreement with Doug Wilson and George Bush. A quick
reality political reality check will show that most
people fall somewhere in the vast spectrum of
political belief just as far from you as from Doug
Wilson. 

Finally, Mr. Haymen also confuses criticize with
participate.

"You perhaps left something out of your response. Only
if one voted on a federal level could one criticize
thusly. And, of course, avoid other countries
altogether."

The United States does not have the ethical right to
establish the religious, governmental, and the
economic structures of another country. We do have the
right to criticize them.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold 
















Mr. Arnold says, "if the parent does not live in the
city, the parent 
does
not have a say in how the city operates and
functions."

Doesn't it follow that no one has a right to criticize
a jurisdiction
unless they live in that jurisdiction? Thus, anyone
from Moscow
criticizing the city of New Orleans or the state of
Louisiana for the 
way
that they handled things after Katrina was wrong to do
so. It is fine 
to
criticize the federal government but we can't
criticize New Orleans or
Louisiana since none of us live there.

And it would seem that neither Doug Wilson nor anyone
else has the 
right
to criticize public schools in general. As Mr. Donovan
has pointed out,
most public schools fall under the jurisdiction of the
state. Unless we
live in that state, we can't be critical of its
schools.

So where were you, Mr. Arnold, when your conservative
friends were 
voicing
their opinions about topics over which, according to
your principles, 
they
had no right to speak?

For the record, I live in Moscow and I am happy to
have Rose and Joan 
and
Melynda share their opinions about the town. And not
just because I 
tend
to agree with them. What we need is more discourse
about Moscow, not 
less
of it. We should be grateful to get any feedback that
we get, whether 
we
agree with it or not.

One more thing, Mr. Arnold. Could you please tell me
where I might find
the footnotes to the First Amendment, the ones
detailing the 
restrictions
to free speech and criticism of governmental agencies
that you 
articulate
below? So far I seem to have missed them.

Joe Campbell

--- Warren Hayman <whayman at adelphia.net> wrote:

> Hello Joe,
> 
> You perhaps left something out of your response.
> Only if one voted on a 
> federal level could one criticize thusly. And, of
> course, avoid other 
> countries altogether.
> 
> Warren Hayman
> 
> On Sunday, October 2, 2005, at 08:20  AM,
> josephc at mail.wsu.edu wrote:
> 
> > Mr. Arnold says, "if the parent does not live in
> the city, the parent 
> > does
> > not have a say in how the city operates and
> functions."
> >
> > Doesn't it follow that no one has a right to
> criticize a jurisdiction
> > unless they live in that jurisdiction? Thus,
> anyone from Moscow
> > criticizing the city of New Orleans or the state
> of Louisiana for the 
> > way
> > that they handled things after Katrina was wrong
> to do so. It is fine 
> > to
> > criticize the federal government but we can't
> criticize New Orleans or
> > Louisiana since none of us live there.
> >
> > And it would seem that neither Doug Wilson nor
> anyone else has the 
> > right
> > to criticize public schools in general. As Mr.
> Donovan has pointed out,
> > most public schools fall under the jurisdiction of
> the state. Unless we
> > live in that state, we can't be critical of its
> schools.
> >
> > So where were you, Mr. Arnold, when your
> conservative friends were 
> > voicing
> > their opinions about topics over which, according
> to your principles, 
> > they
> > had no right to speak?
> >
> > For the record, I live in Moscow and I am happy to
> have Rose and Joan 
> > and
> > Melynda share their opinions about the town. And
> not just because I 
> > tend
> > to agree with them. What we need is more discourse
> about Moscow, not 
> > less
> > of it. We should be grateful to get any feedback
> that we get, whether 
> > we
> > agree with it or not.
> >
> > One more thing, Mr. Arnold. Could you please tell
> me where I might find
> > the footnotes to the First Amendment, the ones
> detailing the 
> > restrictions
> > to free speech and criticism of governmental
> agencies that you 
> > articulate
> > below? So far I seem to have missed them.
> >
> > Joe Campbell
> >
> >> "Does someone who lives in the Moscow School
> District,
> >> with children or grandchildren attending Moscow
> public
> >> schools, have any valid reasons to be concerned
> about
> >> the affairs of the city where their children
> attend
> >> school?"-Ted
> >>
> >> Interesting, Ted.
> >>
> >> First, the City of Moscow does not have, or
> control,
> >> any public schools.
> >>
> >> Second, the public schools that are located
> inside
> >> Moscow are controlled by the Idaho State School
> >> District 281, not the city.
> >>
> >> So, logically, it would not follow that the
> parent be
> >> given control of a government that does not
> control
> >> the school when it is the school they want
> control
> >> over. They need control of the school district.
> >>
> >> So, logically, yes, I support a legal guardian
> being
> >> able to vote and have some say in the school
> district.
> >>
> >> If a parent has children attending school within
> a
> >> city, the parent has a right and say of how the
> school
> >> operates and functions. But if the parent does
> not
> >> live in the city, the parent does not have a say
> in
> >> how the city operates and functions.
> >>
> >> If a parent that does not like the way a city
> operates
> >> and functions, lives outside the city, and has
> their
> >> child is in a school in the city, they can vote
> to
> >> move the school outside the jurisdiction of the
> city.
> >>
> >> Might I also be so bold, Ted, as to point out
> that the
> >> person complaining about city law was not
> complaining
> >> about schools, but about city code, and not for
> >> allowing schools, but getting rid of them.
> >>
> >> Take Care,
> >>
> >> Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >
>
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> 
> 
>
_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step
> Internet, 
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
>  
>                http://www.fsr.net                   
>    
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
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