[Vision2020] A Short Look at Phil Nisbet and the Truth
Phil Nisbet
pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
Tue May 31 16:55:53 PDT 2005
Wayne
And which part of "You have not read anything I have written" was not
comprhendible?
If, for example, somebody else posts an article on the web titled "How I
Love Hitler" by Wayne Fox, should we assume that you are a Nazi Wayne?
Yes there is something with my name on it that is part of the Naylors report
of 500 pages. No, I did not prepare a report for the Naylors.
Phil Nisbet
>From: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Geeh melynda
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 15:40:45 -0700
>
>Phil,
>
>This is like pissing in the wind.
>
>Phil quotes me and responds:
>
>[Wayne writes
>
>"Only the dribble you wrote, was made part of the public record in the
>Naylor Farms water permit application, and was submitted by Naylor Farms to
>the IDWR attempting to demonstrate there was no connection between the
>water to be drawn from the Naylor Farms property and water drawn from
>Moscow wells."
>
>As I previously stated, you have never read anything that I have written on
>the subject.]
>
>Is this an admission that you did not write the material submitted under
>your name by Naylor Farms under oath in the first IDWR hearing on this
>matter?
>
>
>Phil writes:
>
>[What claims would those be Wayne? Because I have read all the testimony
>and all the relevant documents and see no evidence that anything that I
>have actually written or given testimony to has ever been refuted.]
>
>We must live in different universes.
>
>Here is a Conclusion of Law from the IDWR Preliminary Order in this matter
>that was drawn from your testimony and written material submitted under
>your name:
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>
>
>In rebuttal, here is an excerpt from the Bush, et al letter referenced
>before. Notice the accusation of plagiarism in 4) below.
>
>----------------------------------------
>1) The sequence of sediments the Naylor wells will be
>pumping from is laterally equivalent to the upper Grande Ronde Basalt flows
>in Pullman and to a 200 ft thick sequence of sediments beneath the Wanapum
>Basalt in Moscow. Groundwater connection has not been proven, but
>conversely no evidence exists to indicate there is not a connection.
>
>
>
>2) The data presented for the ''D Street ridge" are weak at
>best and the presence of the structure is exceedingly speculative. Rocks
>in yards and retaining walls are hardly evidence of bedrock at shallow
>levels and are probably no more than ornamental stones. Even if such a
>ridge exists in the subsurface, both the city of Moscow and the University
>of Idaho have deep wells in the basalt and sediment sequence north of the
>purported ridge.
>
>
>
>3) Water levels are higher in the drill holes at Naylor
>Farms than they are in wells in Moscow, indicating that the Moscow wells
>are not up gradient from the Naylor Farms.
>
>
>
>4) Much of the background geologic information submitted by
>Naylor Farms, including the original of the Columbia River basalts, is
>either wrong or irrelevant, and does not reflect current geologic thinking.
> Much of the information was taken directly from a discredited popular
>book, whereas the primary literature was ignored.
>
>
>
>5) Most importantly, the applicant gave the false impression
>that work by Dr. John Bush and Dean L. Garwood, of the University of Idaho,
>independently corroborates the aquifer model developed by Naylor Farms.
>The work by Bush and Garwood over the past 10 years does not support the
>specifics of the geologic conclusions drawn in the application. Isolated
>facts were extracted from their work, placed out of context, and used to
>support a highly speculative model.
>
>-------------------------------------------
>
>In rebuttal, here are two excerpts from the Affidavit of Kevin Brackney:
>
>A. There is no evidence that the hydrologic sub-basins described by
>Phillip C. Nisbet in the Idaho Department of Water Resources Water Permit
>Application 87-10022 proceedings exist in sense that Nisbet described;
>there is no geologic evidence that the alleged D Street granitic ridge
>exists; the Moscow Pullman Basin is hydrologically, continuous because it
>is open at depth to the west. Therefore, in my professional opinion,
>Conclusion of Law No. 3 in the Preliminary Order issued in this matter is
>in error.
>
>
>
>B. The Idaho Department of Water Resources Preliminary Order issued in
>the 87-10022 permit proceedings dated December 1, 2004, hereinafter
>Preliminary Order, states that the sub-basins alleged by Nisbet were
>independently confirmed in a presentation given by geologist John Bush. I
>disagree with this conclusion. John Bush does describe a northwest
>trending topographic high in the vicinity of Pullman, Washington. There is
>some hydrologic evidence that this topographic high isolates Pullman Wells
>from Moscow Wells, but this topographic high will not isolate Moscow wells
>nor Latah County rural wells from the proposed drawdown effects at Naylor
>Farms. Therefore, in my professional opinion, this is further evidence
>that Conclusion of Law No. 3 in the Preliminary Order is in error.
>
>
>
>C. The Preliminary Order concludes that the Moscow City Wells are
>up-gradient from Naylor Farms. I disagree with this conclusion. As
>described above the Naylor Farms are interpreted to be wholly contained
>within the Moscow Basin. It is believed that the cone of depression created
>by large scale pumping of wells completed in the Wanapum Aquifer will
>overwhelm the natural hydraulic gradient. Because Naylor Farms is located
>in a ground water recharge zone on the margin of Moscow Mountain (the
>Palouse Range), it is more likely that Naylor Farms are up-gradient from
>the Moscow wells. Nisbet estimated that the water level in the Naylor
>boring was 200 ft higher than Moscow wells (Permit Proceedings, Naylor
>Exhibit 11a, p. 4). I have reviewed Naylor's data and estimated a
>hydraulic head differential of approximately 150 ft between the Naylor
>boring and the Wanapum Aquifer at University of Idaho Well No. 2 (See
>Figure 1 below). Because ground water moves from higher potential to lower
>potential the Naylor boring should be interpreted as being up-gradient of
>Moscow wells. Therefore in my professional opinion, Finding of Fact No. 9
>in the Preliminary Order is in error.
>
>
>
>
>39. During the proceedings at issue, Phillip C. Nisbet provided a
>written report in which he alleged several “sub-basins.” He alleged that
>the alleged, so-called “Naylor Sub-basin” was hydrologically isolated from
>the alleged, so-called “Moscow Sub-basin” (Permit Proceedings, Naylor
>Exhibit 11a).
>
>
>
>40. I have reviewed the evidence for these sub-basins, looked at the
>“outcrops” referenced in his report, and discussed the evidence with John
>Kauffman who also reviewed the evidence (See Figure 6, Letter from Bush, et
>al, 2004 below).
>
>
>
>41. In short there is very little evidence, if any, for the existence
>of these hydrologic sub-basins.
>
>
>
>42. The Nisbet alleged, so-called “outcrops” on “D Street” in Moscow
>consist of retaining walls of quartzite and basalt and are believed to be
>imported along with other concrete, brick, and railroad tie retaining walls
>also in the area.
>
>
>
>43. The Nisbet alleged, so-called “D St. Ridge” is simply one of many
>eroded Palouse Hills that exist in Moscow.
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>
>
>You can respond to this post if you like. I could have quoted a great deal
>more from the public record and from newspaper articles featuring your
>statements to respond to all your points, but this is enough pissing into
>the wind.
>
>My purpose in responding in the first place was to show interested V 2020
>readers that when Naylor Farms applies for further permits in Latah County
>or elsewhere, statements made by them and/or their agents are to be taken
>with a gargantuan grain of salt and examined very, very closely.
>
>Readers can decide for themselves at this point if I have demonstrated
>such.
>
>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>deco at moscow.com
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 7:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Geeh melynda
>
>
> > Wayne writes
> >
> > "Only the dribble you wrote, was made part of the public record in the
> > Naylor Farms water permit application, and was submitted by Naylor Farms
>to
> > the IDWR attempting to demonstrate there was no connection between the
>water
> > to be drawn from the Naylor Farms property and water drawn from Moscow
> > wells."
> >
> > As I previously stated, you have never read anything that I have written
>on
> > the subject.
> >
> > Wayne writes
> >
> > "At the last IDWR hearing all the protestants/interveners'
> > geologists/hydrologists demolished your claims. Even the geologist
>hired by
> > Naylor farms admitted that he was unable to verify or agree
>substantially
> > with your claims."
> >
> > What claims would those be Wayne? Because I have read all the testimony
>and
> > all the relevant documents and see no evidence that anything that I have
> > actually written or given testimony to has ever been refuted. As a
>matter
> > of fact, Wayne, testing currently on going north of town is proving my
> > point. The real and very interesting question that did come out of
>those
> > testimonies is how flawed the operational model is.
> >
> >
> > Wayne goes on
> >
> > "Why don't you tell us exactly how many shares the Naylor Farms
>principals
> > own in I-Minerals? And what percentage of total I-Mineral stock that
>is?
> > Let's see how honest you are."
> >
> > Its public record Wayne, they own about 10% of the company. 10% of the
> > company is not a control block Wayne and they do not have a seat on the
> > board. The company is controled (Over 50% of the shares fully diluted)
>by
> > one very large shareholder, who does have a seat on the board. He is
>not
> > related to the Naylors and does not have any interest in their farm.
> >
> > Then Wayne asserts
> >
> > "As there being no connection between Naylor Farms, others will conclude
> > quite differently from your no-connection-assertion once they see the
> > figures about holdings requested above, which you can easily present."
> >
> > Well Wayne, the Naylor family owning a 10% stake in a firm seems pretty
> > straight forward as a sign that they do not control the company i
>minerals
> > inc. They have no seat on its board of directors and not one of the
> > officers or employees of i minerals inc has any financial or family tie
>to
> > Naylor Farms.
> >
> > Wayne then writes
> >
> > "John Bush and two other geologists wrote a scathing letter to the IDWR
> > about how you misused their data. [For those interested, I can supply a
> > copy of this document -- a large PDF file.] Comments were also made by
> > other geologists about the uselessness of your core samples because of
>the
> > methods and lack of proper/standard documentation/labeling."
> >
> > Wayne, I seriously doubt that you have any statements that the core was
> > mislabeled. All core blocks are in their proper places. The trouble is
> > that no other geologist has ever bothered to drop by, largely due to the
> > controversy you provided, and actually look at the core. The quick logs
> > were properly done for what the hole was, a geological and not a water
>hole.
> >
> > You confuse the issue, Wayne, since the objections you reference were
>that
> > water well drilling forms that your hydrologists are used to were not
>used.
> > That should amaze nobody, since the holes were geological core holes and
> > never meant to be water wells.
> >
> > John had previously mapped the area in question as granite. Its not.
>If
> > you look at John's revised maps and his plots, the data I developed is
> > clearly shown. Prior to the holes being drilled and the information
>being
> > logged, sections for the area showed granite below a thin veneer of
>Palouse
> > Formation. Now we know that Sediment of Bovill, Wanapum Basalt and
>Vantage
> > member of the Latah Formation all occur in a 470 foot thick package
>below
> > section 29. Since holes drilled south of Naylor Farms at the Junction
>of
> > Foothills Road and Highway 95 hit Granite at a depth of 190-200 feet,
>that
> > is pretty clearly a geological barrier to water flow between Moscow and
>the
> > Northern area. If you had bothered to look at even Your expert Dr
>Elliots
> > testimony, you would have seen that I am not the only person who noted
>the
> > presence of a buried ridge.
> >
> > As for the letter John put forward, you might consider what he was
>replying
> > to and if anything he was replying to had anything to do with me. The
> > concept of an E-W ridge below D Street is not mine and I find the idea
>of
> > its presence doubtful. However, there is a channel similar to the
>Moscow
> > Channel which shows up in well logs and outcrops north of the Moscow and
> > which is paralell to the Moscow Channel. Those rwo channels are
>seperated
> > by a well documented ridge line. It has no effect on movement of water
> > within the Sediment of Bovill and its four established water bearing
> > horizons, but does impact what happens within the upper and lower
>Vantage
> > member sands.
> >
> > They Wayne writes
> >
> > "The purpose of Kevin's affidavit was to rebut your claims. [For those
> > interested, I can supply a copy of Kevin's first affidavit. It is a
>very
> > large Word document.] He even indirectly suggested in it that you could
>not
> > tell a geological formation from a rock dump."
> >
> > If you would like Wayne I will see if Kevin wants to put forward a
>letter
> > stating anything like that. I seriously doubt that he will.
> >
> > And of course there is this set of Wayne's world
> >
> > "Kevin's version of the telephone conversation is the opposite and made
> > under oath. Naylor Farms' attorney had notice of Kevin's testimony of
>this
> > before the last IDWR hearing. Is it not clear why you were not called
>by
> > the Naylor Farms attorney in this hearing to rebut this claim?"
> >
> > Once again, I have not changed my opinion on anything that I have
>actually
> > written or that I gave as testemony under oath. Kevin knows that and
>you
> > might be better off actually talking to him.
> >
> > Finally this from Wayne
> >
> > "Sue away. I cannot help if the Latah County Prosecutor failed to make
>a
> > complete investigation before he acted. But sue. But look up the law
>on
> > public figures so that you do not unintentionally make your attorneys
>much
> > richer. But if you sue, expect a rigorous counteraction and a very
> > searching discovery process. I will not make the same mistake the
> > prosecutor did"
> >
> > The Prosecutor did not have a case not for lack of investigation Wayne,
>but
> > because there was no wrong doing. The Idaho Board of Professional
> > Geologists stated that pretty clearly in their March letter. Further,
>the
> > Nez Perce County Prosecutor found no criminal act had taken place.
> >
> > On the otherhand Wayne, John Bush is not a licenced Geologist, nor are
>any
> > of the three geologists you mentioned having written a 'scathing'
>letter.
> > As a matter of fact Wayne, not one person currently employed by the
>Idaho
> > Geological Survey is a licenced geologist. 90% of the professors at the
>U
> > of I are also not licenced. Of the hundred or so geologists in the area
> > there are only 6 with licences. Heck, even CE Brockway, the high priced
> > Hydrologist hired by the county who gave testimony at the last hearing
>is
> > not a licenced geologist, though it is patently not legal for the county
>or
> > any other state agency to contract any person to do geology or hydrology
>who
> > is not a holder of that licence.
> >
> > I am actually one of the only people without a licence who works and is
> > exempt.
> >
> > You and a few buddies of yours went on a rampage which, had you looked
>at
> > it, could have put some of the very people on whom you have relied into
>deep
> > hot water.
> >
> >
> > Phil Nisbet
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> > _____________________________________________________
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> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
> >
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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