[Vision2020] For Donovan: Some Questions

[Tbertruss at aol.com]

Donovan, Wayne et. al.

I know you do not support discrimination against women and gays, from what 
you have written, and as far as I have gathered, you support the existence of 
the public schools, and their important role to play in the educational/cultural 
development of youth, though you may disagree with the details of how MSD is 
being operated.

So I am wondering why you are so venomously (I borrow this word from your 
V2020 posts) opposed to those who are seeking to defend the values of women's 
rights, gay rights, and the value of the public schools in Moscow, from what is 
most certainly a powerful organization seeking to undermine and defeat these 
values and institutions?

It appears you are trying to undermine the rights of citizens to organize, 
speak out and focus on the legal conduct of an organization that is clearly 
seeking to promote the denial of women's rights, gay rights, and the value of the 
public schools.

I have read over and over your arguments on V2020 regarding what you believe 
is the unreasonable targeting of Christ Church by some people in Moscow, but 
it seems you are downplaying the negative consequences from some of the beliefs 
of Christ Church, consequences that effect real human beings in the real 
world.

Christ Church has a right to organize and promote their values system and 
beliefs, but others who are adamantly opposed to the promotion of some of these 
values and beliefs also have a right to speak out and organize against them, do 
they not?  Do you think those who have organized against Christ Church should 
stop all their actions, given that they are adamantly opposed to the 
promotion by Christ Church of certain values and beliefs that they feel strongly do 
result in real harm to real human beings?  And if they did stop all their 
actions focused on Christ Church, would they not be denying their responsibilities 
as citizens to oppose an organization that is promoting beliefs and values of 
discrimination against certain classes of people?

Let's explore what harm Christ Church's values and beliefs are doing to real 
human beings in the real world.

Donovan wrote:

Christ Church is not pulling people out their cars and
smashing their faces into the gravel by force with a
shot gun to the back of their head. They are not
saying, "Take the law into your own hands and kill a
Jew." They are not shooting at Gays with a shotgun in
downtown Spokane. They are not dragging minorities
into the woods and beating them up. They are not
hanging Black people in the arboretum."

These observations by Donovan were made in a comparison of Christ Church in 
Moscow to the Aryan Nations "church" that was once under the leadership of 
Richard Butler in N. Idaho.

The issue of who is being done harm in the promotion by Christ Church of 
absolutist "God given" values that do advocate discriminate against certain 
classes of people begs for more exploration than just stating that the this church 
does not engage in the extreme behavior Donovan cited.  

It is well known that Christ Church does not believe in women serving in 
leadership roles.  The fact that women cannot serve on the Logos School Board was 
a topic of extensive debate on V2020 a few years ago.  And we know with 
certainty that being gay is regarded as a serious sin by Christ Church, deserving of 
punishment, though I don't think the members of this church would conduct a 
public stoning, as the Bible suggests.  And of course they view the public 
schools as an evil agnostic/atheist institution, certainly not deserving of their 
tax dollars.

The question therefore is, are people being harmed by the promotion of these 
beliefs?  Are women who belong to Christ Church being discriminated against?  
Are any potentially gay members of Christ Church being discriminated against?  
If Christ Church voters succeeded in blocking funding for public schools in 
Moscow, could this do any harm to members of the Moscow community?

While not allowing women to serve on the Logos School Board may be legal, it 
sets an example of discrimination against women, and does in fact discriminate 
against any women who is capable and wishing to serve on this school board.  
Is this not real harm done to real human beings resulting from the belief 
system of Christ Church?

The youth of this church are being raised to follow this belief that women 
should not serve in leadership roles.  Is this not real harm being done to real 
human beings resulting from the belief system of Christ Church?  What does the 
promotion of this belief that women should not serve in leadership roles do 
to the feelings of self worth and importance of female members of Christ Church 
of all ages?

Any member of Christ Church who discovers or has just been hiding the fact 
they are gay, who makes this fact publicly known, will face some rather serious 
consequences from the power structure of this church, consequences that anyone 
who wishes to stop discrimination against gay people would find appalling.  
Besides this impact within the church, the impact on gay people in general in th
is area from knowing that a powerful and prominent church believes they are 
committing sins that deserve serious punishment cannot be understood as 
anything but negative on their feelings of legitimacy and self worth.

Is this not real harm done to real human beings resulting from the promotion 
of the beliefs 
of Christ Church regarding their views on gay people?

And for anyone who believes the public schools have a positive role to play 
in Moscow, is not the total opposition to the public schools by Christ Church 
an influence that may have had and can have in the future a negative impact on 
real human beings?  Is it possible that youth may be denied 
educational/cultural opportunities resulting in a real negative impact on real human beings from 
the adamant ideological opposition by Christ Church to the very existence of 
the public schools, who do follow a separation of church and state?

You may or may not answer all or any of the questions in this post, assuming 
you even read it.

But I will not be drawn into a long debate with you over these questions if 
you chose to refute the general drift of my little spiel here.

The issues outlined above have been parsed through over and over on V2020.  
They probably will require repeating over and over and over in every nation on 
Earth for hundreds maybe thousands of years if these issues are ever going to 
be resolved in a positive result.

Ted Moffett 



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