[Vision2020] Wayne's challenge

[Phil Nisbet]

Wayne Fox issued a challenge suggesting that support for something he 
refered to as The Church of Christ Christian be a test of a persons belief 
in religious freedoms and I thought that perhaps clarification should be 
offered to correct his poorly inspired post.

First;

As per normative, Wayne has botched the job in issue of his challenge.  The 
Church of Christ Christian is actually an organization which its not to hard 
to defend.  The have a United Organization that even includes Peace and 
Justice groups and a whole lot of very left leaning ideologies that I am 
sure Wayne would find of comfort.  Their leader is a guy named, José Abraham 
De Jesús.

So heck, Wayne, I am all in support of hammering people who are playing 
games with that Cleveland based group of churchs.  Boy, that challenge was 
easy. . .

However, I think that what Wayne was trying to play at was giving us a 
challenge to support the religious freedom of The Church of Jesus Christ 
Christian, the Aryan Brotherhood.  As with other instances of getting the 
facts wrong, Wayne chose the wrong name, just as he and others here chose 
false numbers and spouts them as well.

Still, I will galdly deal with the reality of Wayne's botched challenge, 
properly corrected to deal with the Aryan Brotherhood.

You see, Wayne, I would never have taken action against Butler's little 
group if all they did was sit on a mountain top and believed their bogus 
idealogy, leaving the rest of us alone.  The Aryan Nation, did not do that 
and they specifically preached Race War as an active group of violent 
actions seeking to enforce their system of Aryan domination on all other 
persons.  They not only preached Race War, they actively promoted training 
for and stockpiling of weapons for the violent overthrow of the American 
system and sent teams like the Order out to kill people.

If you bring me information that the people here in Moscow at Christ Church 
are planning the violent overthrow of the US government and are training 
death squads to kill the people on the list of people that they find to be 
sinners, I will gladly join you on the barricades Wayne.  To date, all I 
have seen is that they and their church are exclusivist, people who chose 
not to have certain behaviors tolerated in their group.

The reality is that we all lack toleration.  Its part of the human 
condition.  There are people who we do not care to assiciate with.  I can 
think of any number of them I will not spend time with.

But being intolerant of others is not the same thing as actively seeking the 
death of or the suppression of the beliefs of another human being.

The question is one of deciding what role and when the government, to whit 
society in general, can or should enter the fray.  For me that threshold is 
very high and obviously for you that threshold is very low.

For me the KKK, Aryan Nations, NAMBLA and a variety of other groups who 
actively harm others and break the law, use violence and other abuses, are 
fair game.  They cross the line from simple lack of toleration and 
exclusivity to active harm to others.

My problem with the witch hunt now happening here in town is that it focuses 
on the exclusivity of a groups beliefs and not on criminality on the part of 
that group.  As I said, if you can provide me with proof that the CCers are 
out to kill people or are seeking to actively supress people's civil rights, 
I will be the first on the Baricades.  I think that so far, you lack that 
proof.

Phil Nisbet

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