[Vision2020] Federally subsidized student financial aid

Thu Jun 2 18:57:04 PDT 2005

Again, there is a DIFFERENCE between giving money, or
tax credits back in excess of what people pay in taxes
for having children and a student loan, which a
student must pay back wit interest.

A loan you pay back, with interest. It costs the
taxpayer no money.

If Ms. Opyr does not comprehend this difference, I am
afraid there is nothing further I can say. And posting
links to federal loans, child credits, and the price
of tea in China does not change the fact that there is
a difference between cash giveaway and a loan.

If people cannot afford to raise their children, give
them loans, do not allow them into other people's
pockets for being irresponsible for having children
they cannot afford. 

Donovan J Arnold

PS, Joan Opyr, you can make all the personal attacks
on me you want along with 17 other people everyday, I
am sure your (self proclaimed) Christian friends will
not object, it is, after all a Christian think to do.

You can think of me as a big mean asshole Joan. That
is fine. But I know I am not such a mean guy, because
out of all the jobs and professions I chose, I chose
the one that requires me to wipe the ass of a disabled
person who cannot reach around, to clean up vomit of a
sick person, bathe someone who cannot bathe themselves
and change the diapers of the 360 lbs man with no
bowel control. Why, because I care about people that
others will not. If I hated people, I would not do
that, it can be gross and the pay sucks. But you know,
they are all people, and they need RESPECT. Something
you refuse to give others unless they agree with you.
So I concede Ms. Opyr, I cannot match your sharp razor
tongue, or your wickedness. I cannot possibly hate to
the degree you do or dig deep enough to find the
hurtful things that roll off your tongue. Nor could I
imagine wanting to. So hack at me all you want Joan. I
have not been, and will not engage you in personal
attacks. I want to help people, not practice hurting
them.

--- "joanopyr at earthlink.net" <joanopyr at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Dear Visionaries:
> 
> I don’t know why any of us continue to bother
> Donovan with the facts, but here goes.  From
> http://www.finaid.org/loans/, The Smart Student
> Guide to Financial Aid:
> “An education loan is a form of financial aid that
> must be repaid, with interest. (Scholarships, on the
> other hand, do not have to be repaid.) 
> Education loans come in three major categories:
> student loans (e.g., Stafford and Perkins loans),
> parent loans (e.g., PLUS loans) and private
> education loans (also called alternative loans). A
> fourth type of education loan, the consolidation
> loan, allows the borrower to lump all of their loans
> into one loan for simplified payment. 
> Few students can afford to pay for college without
> some form of education financing. Two-thirds (65.6%)
> of undergraduate students graduate with some debt,
> and the average federal student loan debt among
> graduating seniors is $19,102 (Stafford and Perkins
> Loans), according to the 2003-2004 National
> Postsecondary Student Aid Study (NPSAS). (The median
> is $17,120. One quarter of undergraduate students
> borrow $24,936 or more, and one tenth borrow $35,193
> or more.) These figures increase by about 3% or
> approximately $550 a year. When one includes PLUS
> loans in the total, the average cumulative debt
> incurred is $21,814. (Approximately one in ten
> (10.7%) parents borrow PLUS loans for their
> children's college education, with a cumulative PLUS
> loan debt of $16,218.) 
> Graduate and professional students borrow even more,
> with the additional debt for a graduate degree
> ranging from $27,000 to $114,000. The following
> table shows the percentage borrowing and average
> amount of cumulative debt among graduating students
> according to degree program. It provides the amounts
> borrowed for just the graduate education and also
> the combined totals for undergraduate and graduate
> education.”
> >From this same website: “The interest rate on the
> Stafford Loan starting July 1, 2005 is 5.30% during
> the repayment period and 4.70% during in-school and
> grace periods, an increase of 1.93% over the
> previous year's rates. The interest rate on the PLUS
> loan is 6.10%, up from 4.17%. So the era of
> historically low interest rates on student loans has
> ended. Interest rates are expected to increase by a
> further 1.5% to 2.0% on July 1, 2006, returning to
> historical averages.”
> Now, from the Latah Federal Credit Union website:
> “Personal loans are available for just about any
> reason. Go on a trip, refinish your hardwood floors,
> or pay for unexpected expenses with one of our
> personal loans. The rates for the loans are split
> into two categories. For loans of $9999.99 and less,
> you can repay for up to 36 months. Personal loans
> with a $10000.00 minimum have a repayment term of up
> to 72 months!” 
>  
> LFCU’s current rates for personal loans are 9.25%
> for $9999.99 or less borrowed for a period of 36
> months.  The rate for $10,000 borrowed for 60 months
> is 9.5%.
>  
> Please note the difference between commercial (or
> private) lending rates and the government-subsidized
> (and federally-guaranteed) lending rates for
> educational loans.  Yes, Virginia, there is a
> Federal Santa Claus, and he, or rather we, are
> paying for Donovan Arnold’s continuing education.  I
> would consider that money well spent if there were
> only some – please God, any – evidence that he was
> learning.  At this point, I'd settle for a picture
> of his shoes properly tied.
>  
> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> www.auntie-establishment.com
> 
> PS: I don't know why Debbie thinks Donovan might
> ever have need of a doctor or lawyer or tinker,
> tailor, soldier, spy -- he's already asserted his
> absolute expertise in a good 99% of the world's
> professions right here on this list.  In fact, he
> has surpassed Pastor Doug Wilson as Moscow's new
> "Jethro Bodine," the Beverly Hillbillies' brain
> surgeon, international playboy, and double-nought
> spy.  You remember him, don't you?  He grad-ee-ated
> the sixth grade!
> PPS: Keely, the fact that your father sold a ’76
> Mustang for a mere thousand bucks makes me sadder
> than I’ve been since I read Ginger’s death scene in
> Black Beauty at age seven.  You owe me a box of
> Kleenex.  And your father owes me a bottle of
> Ambien; I’m not going to be able to sleep for at
> least a week.>
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
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> 

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