[Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
donald toogood
dtoogood at email.com
Sat Jul 16 18:07:41 PDT 2005
You're right on that. And did you see where none of those who want men
marrying each other will say anything about how it will mean people can
marry like four or five people at one time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Kraut"
To: "vision2020"
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:52:08 -0700
>
> If they can convince us that this has been a normal practice
throughout
> history then they think they can justify their actions today and
'prove'
> that the stand against homesexuality is wrong is our problem. It is
the
> argument of a thirteen year old...'everybody else is doing it'. If
it is
> wrong I don't care who else did it and just being famous is not
reason
> enough to follow the beliefs of anyone.
> PK
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lfalen"
> To: "Tom Hansen" ; "'Pat Kraut'" ;
> "'vision2020'"
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:52 PM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church
> ofChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
>
> Not that it makes any difference, but I would question some 20 plus
of the
> names on your list being accurate. Some were great people some were
> scoundrels. Whether they were homosexual is debatable. You may be
right, I
> don't know. Lord Byron was a notoriouss womanizer. He may not have
had a
> preference, I don't know. There were accusations against J. Edgar
Hoove made
> by his enemies. I don't know that they have been shown to be any
thing more
> than accusations made to discredit him. I have never seen anything
on
> Eleanor Roosevelt or about 20 other people on you list. Against
that doesn't
> mean anything.
> -----Original message-----
> From: "Tom Hansen" thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 06:48:42 -0700
> To: "'Pat Kraut'" pkraut at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
> ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
>
> > You may be on to something there, Ms. Kraut.
> >
> > We certainly cannot have our children growing up thinking (or for
that
> > matter, believing) that homosexuals are people with human
emotions.
> >
> > We must identify homosexuals and eliminate them. It's the moral
thing to
> > do. Right, Ms. Kraut?
> >
> > Perhaps another concept we should adapt concerning our children
is "Out of
> > sight, out of mind." We should purge any and all documents,
films,
> photos,
> > etc. etc. that depict any of the following homosexuals. After
all, it is
> > only right.
> >
> > This list is not all inclusive, just a mere spattering of
homosexuals in
> > history. You've got to start somewhere.
> >
> > Right, Ms. Kraut?
> >
> > *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
> > Socrates
> > *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
> > Sappho
> > *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
> > Hadrian
> > *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
> > Richard the Lionhearted
> > *English King, 12th c.
> > Saladin
> > *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
> > Desiderius Erasmus
> > *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
> > Francis Bacon
> > *English statesman, author
> > Frederick the Great
> > *King of Prussia
> > Lord Byron
> > *English poet, 18th c.
> > Walt Whitman
> > *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
> > Oscar Wilde
> > *Irish author, 19th c.
> > Marcel Proust
> > *French author, 20th c.
> > Colette
> > *French author, 20th c.
> > Gertrude Stein
> > *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
> > Alice B. Toklas
> > *U.S. author, 20th c.
> > Federico Garcia Lorca
> > *Spanish author, 20th c.
> > Cole Porter
> > *U.S. composer, 20th c.
> > Virginia Woolf
> > *English author, 20th c.
> > Leonard Bernstein
> > *U.S. composer, 20th c.
> > Pope Julius III
> > *1550-1555
> > T.E. Lawrence
> > *English soldier, author, 20th c.
> > Jean Cocteau
> > *French writer, director, 20th c.
> > Charles Laughton
> > *English actor, 20th c.
> > Marguerite Yourcenar
> > *Belgian author, 20th c.
> > Tennessee Williams
> > *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
> > James Baldwin
> > *U.S. author, 20th c.
> > Andy Warhol
> > *U.S. artist, 20th c.
> > Michelangelo
> > *Italian artist, 15th c.
> > Leonardo Da Vinci
> > *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
> > Christopher Marlowe
> > *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
> > Herman Melville
> > *U.S. author, 19th c.
> > Horatio Alger, Jr.
> > *U.S. author, 19th c.
> > Tchaikovsky
> > *Russian composer, 19th c.
> > Willa Cather
> > *U.S. author, 19th c.
> > Amy Lowell
> > *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
> > E.M. Forster
> > *English author, 20th c.
> > John M. Keynes
> > *English economist, 20th c.
> > Ludwig Wittgenstein
> > *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
> > Bessie Smith
> > *U.S. singer, 20th c.
> > Noel Coward
> > *English playwright, 20th c.
> > Christopher Isherwood
> > *English author, 20th c.
> > Pier Paolo Pasolini
> > *Italian film director, 20th c.
> > Yukio Mishima
> > *Japanese author, 20th c.
> > Eleanor Roosevelt
> > *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
> > Julius Caesar
> > *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
> > Augustus Caesar
> > *Roman Emperor
> > Harvey Milk
> > *U.S. politician, 20th c.
> > Bayard Rustin
> > *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
> > James I
> > *English King, 16th-17th c.
> > Queen Anne
> > *English Queen, 18th c.
> > Marie Antoinette
> > *French Empress, 18th c.
> > Melissa Etheridge
> > *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
> > Pope Benedict IX
> > *1032-1044
> > May Sarton
> > *U.S. author, (1912 - 1995)
> > Edna Ferber
> > *U.S. author, 20th c.
> > Elton John
> > *English Rock Star, 20th c.
> > Margaret Fuller
> > *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
> > Montezuma II
> > *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
> > Peter the Great
> > *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
> > Langston Hughes
> > *U.S. author, 20th c.
> > Pope John XII
> > *955-964
> > Madame de Stael
> > *French writer, 17th-18th c.
> > Martina Navratilova
> > *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
> > Greg Louganis
> > *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
> > Billie Jean King
> > *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
> > Roberta Achtenburg
> > *U.S. politician, 20th c.
> > Barney Frank
> > *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
> > Gerry Studds
> > *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
> > Hans Christian Andersen
> > *Danish author, 19th c.
> > Tom Dooley
> > *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
> > J. Edgar Hoover
> > *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
> > Frida Kahlo
> > *Mexican artist, 20th c.
> > Suleiman the Magnificent
> > *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
> > Rock Hudson
> > *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> > Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
> > *Mexican author, 16th c.
> > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > *U.S. author, 19th c.
> > Candace Gingrich
> > *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
> > Margarethe Cammermeyer
> > *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
> > Zoe Dunning
> > *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
> > Tom Waddel
> > *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
> > Kate Millet
> > *U.S. author, 20th c.
> > Janis Joplin
> > *U.S. singer, 20th c.
> > Rudolf Nuryev
> > *Russian dancer, 20th c.
> > Waslaw Nijinsky
> > *Russian dancer, 20th c.
> > Ernst Röhm
> > *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
> > Dag Hammerskjold
> > *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
> > Aristotle
> > *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
> > Paula Gunn Allen
> > *Native American author, 20th c.
> > Angela Davis
> > *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
> > June Jordan
> > *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
> > Rainer Maria Rilke
> > *German poet, 20th c.
> > James Dean
> > *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> > Montgomery Clift
> > *U.S. actor, 20th c.
> > Baron VonSteuben
> > *German General, Valley Forge
> > Edward II
> > *English King, 14th c.
> >
> > Take care, Moscow.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> >
> >
> > We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are
pretty, some
> are
> > dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but
they all
> > exist very nicely in the same box.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 9:54 PM
> > To: vision2020
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
> > ChristBacksSame-Sex Marriage
> >
> > You truly cannot see the difference...no wonder our kids don't
know what
> > morality is. We are doomed!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Dredge"
> > To: "donald toogood" ;
> > Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 7:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 07 05 05 Ny Times: United Church of
Christ
> > BacksSame-Sex Marriage
> >
> >
> > Maybe you didn't understand my comment. At one point
> > in this country not so long ago (around 1950), many
> > states outlawed interracial marriages...something like
> > 38 states banned them. Some had bans within their
> > state constitutions. The reason why I bring this up
> > is that it is a direct parallel to banning same sex
> > marriage.
> >
> > Roughly 60 years ago in this country, interracial
> > marriages were banned. A black man marrying a white
> > woman was illegal. A white man marrying a black woman
> > was illegal. You claim this isn't the same thing as a
> > man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman. Why?
> > If at one point, there were laws against interracial
> > marriage and same sex marriage, what's the difference?
> > They were both considered illegal marriages.
> >
> > Married can mean between a man and a woman. However,
> > same sex couples in a civil union deserve the exact
> > same rights as married couples.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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