[Vision2020] NSA is NOT illegal?
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 23 01:05:44 PST 2005
Phil,
Good golly! I am sorry, but you are lost as to the purpose and function of
the law and government. Apparently you must have missed where I stated,
"The only exception is if there was a valid public concern, such as a
serious public or safety concern, or if they were blatantly violating the
rights of another group downtown."
Police officers do not just write random tickets for people and stick them
on cars they don't like because of the color, make and model of the vehicle.
They give parking tickets because they are violating the safety and/or
rights of another or others. When I am not violating the rights of another,
I am free to do what I want. I can park in the front, back, side, the third
row from the back, anywhere I want. Your need to park in a handi-capped
parking space does not supercede the need of person in wheelchair that has a
hard time getting to the front door.
You are not required to wear a helmet either, except when the rights of
others or another supercedes your own rights. If you don't wear a helmet
while riding on a motorbike, you could get brain damage, others have to pay
the medical bills, the higher insurance, the social security checks, and I
lose out on a person being able to work and sharing the burden of tax
supported government services. Society's need to curb costs from dumb people
supercedes their need to have to not wear an ugly uncomfortable helmet.
Just because something is a law, doesn't mean it should be followed. It was
once illegal for a black person not to yield their seat to white person on a
bus. IT IS THE LAW!! Should Rosie Parks just have got her ass up and said,
"It is the law" ? Hell no! It was a stupid law. She questioned it's
validity, and she eventually won.
God gave us a brain. And I for one take great delight in using this
wonderful creation. There are good laws, and bad laws. The good ones we need
to keep and bad ones need to be changed.
We have the ability to reason, and to question. We should always question
the reasons for every law and every order.
You, nor anybody else, has presented evidence of any undue burden on any
group or person caused by the presence of NSA in it's current location. Is
NSA a menace to traffic, parking, business, the disabled, dogs in the area,
visitors to Friendship Square, etc? I don't think they are. They are
stirring up trouble, making people feel bad about themselves, and planting
horrible things in the minds of many youngsters. However, that has nothing
to do with their current location.
The simple fact is somebody found an old law in the books, and is using it
to harass NSA because we don't want them there. There is no other reason
they cannot be there other than an unfounded law which has some questionable
meaning. Laws that have no basis in fact, reason, or function, are not good
laws.
How many violations of the law do you think I can find at CJ's that are old,
irrelevant, stupid, pointless, but nonetheless, THE LAW? It is unjust and
unfair to target one business or group with a law that has been ignored for
decades.
Donovan J Arnold
>From: "Shelly" <CJs at Turbonet.com>
>To: <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>
>CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NSA is NOT illegal?
>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:44:52 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
>
>Donovan - you are totally missing the point. I should not have to pay
>parking tickets because it is my right to park where ever I want? Based
>upon
>your reasoning????? Also, based upon first amendment rights I should not
>have to wear a helmet unless I want to. Isn't that my right? Nope! It is
>AGAINST THE LAW. I will get a ticket. Yes, I can chose not to pay the
>ticket
> But I cannot chose wether or not I go to jail. First amendment
>rights......
>............. topless ordinance???? Clothing???? You are out there on this
>one.
>
>If anyone does not have to abide by laws, regulations, ordinances, zoning
>rules, etc., then why should I????? There is a reason such things exist.
>
>It is very hard for me to drive the speed limit down to Lewiston. I know it
>is my privilege to drive however I please. However, there are rules of
>safety I must follow. Or I pay the consequences.
>
>Phil
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: Donovan Arnold
>Date: 01/22/05 16:56:32
>To: rik82 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NSA is NOT illegal?
>
>Visioneers,
>
>I for one must, in part, agree with Eric Martin and Phil Roderick on this
>one issue. While I am disgusted by the teachings of New St. Andrews, and I
>pray the students learn enough to know what a bunch of garbage Calvinism is
>and how they are just worshiping something that is not real, just the idea
>of one man, and under the leadership of false prophets, I believe in their
>right to practice their beliefs. I feel that this is simply a witch hunt
>against a group of people in our community that have a different way of
>thinking and believing than the majority of us.
>
>Many of you seem to lose sight of the fact that the law was invented to
>serve people, not people to serve the law. A few points to make about the
>law;
>
>First, laws are written by humans. Humans make mistakes; they cannot take
>every conceivable happenstance into consideration over the next 1-200
>years.
>The law needs to be changed, adapted, altered, and exceptions need to be
>granted. Laws are messed up, flawed, inconsistent, unfair, out of date,
>and
>short sighted. That doesn't mean that we can just ignore them. What is does
>mean is that we must look at why something is a law or why there is not a
>law, and change that law or grant exceptions for the purpose of helping
>others to best suit the rights and needs of those that it governs.
>
>Laws are not meant for the following reasons;
>
>1) To target individuals that you disagree with that aren't doing anything
>to anyone else
>
>2) To enforce prejudice directly or indirectly
>
>3) To silence or harass those that you dislike of disagree with
>
>Even if the Moscow City Code stated, "New St. Andrew's cannot be downtown"
>It would still be legal for them to do so. If it was written in city code
>that no college can be downtown, it would still be legal. If city code said
>no college, or religious institution could be downtown, it still would be
>legal for them to do so. The reason why is because the first amendment to
>the constitution guarantees them the right to be there. They have the right
>to express themselves and their beliefs regardless of if it makes are
>stomachs turn. The only exception is if there was a valid public concern,
>such as a serious public or safety concern, or if they were blatantly
>violating the rights of another group downtown.
>
>It is my belief that the city code was written for the purposes of
>preventing the University of Idaho from expanding downtown. To use it for
>the purposes of singling out a private college that practices a religion
>and
>ideology that we disagree with is just plain wrong.
>
>While I am sure that many of our members of the city council and the
>planning and zoning committee vary in their tolerance and acceptance of CC
>or NSA, I am confident that they will do what is fair to everyone and not
>abuse the law to violate the constitutional rights of members of NSA.
>
>Nobody has given a fair and sound reason as to why NSA should not be where
>they are now, other than, an old law, and that they just don't like them
>there. Those are not valid, liable, substantial reasons to deny someone
>their right to practice their religious and ideological beliefs.
>
>Denying people their rights is not a judgment about them; it is a judgment
>about you.
>
>Donovan J Arnold
>
>
>
>
> >From: Eric Martin <rik82 at yahoo.com>
> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] NSA illegal?
> >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:41:46 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >A few questions asked in the spirit of trying to get a
> >better grasp on the issues.
> >
> >1. The last couple of emails have given me the
> >impresseion that "educational instituions" that are
> >not written into the zoning ordience as ok are
> >prohibited. I read the zoning ordienance and while
> >section 3.5.7 specifically included:
> >
> >"commercial schools, churches, synagogues, mosques,
> >governmental offices,libraries, museums, art galleris,
> >police and fire station, and similiar public or
> >private instituions"
> >
> >...as permitted principle uses and structures -- I
> >don't see anything that specifies any non-permitted
> >uses and structures used for educational purposes. So
> >someone is gonna have to explain to me how the
> >conclusion was reached that trade/professional schools
> >are o.k., but other types of schools are not.
> >
> >I'm not interested in who does or doesn't like Wilson.
> > I want to know on what grounds this interpretaion of
> >zoning ordinance comes from. My knowledge of the city
> >ordinances is pretty weak, so perhaps this is a simple
> >issue that everybody else on the list is already clear
> >on. But I would like some explanation.
> >
> >
> >2. How is it that NSA, as contoversial as that
> >instituion and its affiliated church have been, was
> >able to open their doors as an educational institution
> >if that was an illegal activity in their current
> >locatation in the first place? Were none of the
> >citizens of this town -- including the city council --
> >aware of the zoning ordienance? It seems like this
> >issue should have come up long ago. Why didn't it?
> >
> >Thanks in advance for whatever clarification on these
> >two issue members of the list can offer.
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
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>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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