[Vision2020] Drunks, drugs, and the empathy factor

[Donovan Arnold]

"I'm a bleeding heart liberal who wants to help all those who want it, and 
that includes addicts."--Saundra Lund.

Bless your heart Saundra! That is why we all love you, because care about 
all people and that is a wonderful sign to see in a person. I wish I saw 
that in more people.

However, I don't think only Liberals should want to help those in need. 
Those that care about people, society, taxes, or even their own welfare 
should want to help those that need help. It is proven that it less of a tax 
burden and more beneficial to get people off drugs and give them the help 
they need then it is deal with the costs to society to take of them and 
repair the damage they eventually end up doing throughout their life to 
others, society, and themselves.

I just amazes me how people would rather spend $50,000 a year for 30 years 
on a person rather than making a one time $10,000 investment to give a 
person some treatment early on and collect $20,000 in productive work they 
would be doing. This is one of the leading reasons why taxes are so high. We 
refuse to fund a child or young adult having trouble when we can help them, 
and then we have to pay for prison, social programs, and other things that 
often exist not for the purpose of helping the people being served but for 
making some company a profit (outsourcing). It is horrible and I wonder when 
people will stop supporting this vicious inhumane system.

Second, not to be a smart ass or anything, but most neurological problems 
are also psychological as well. Schizophrenia, alcoholism, autism, bipolar, 
and ADHD have a neurological cause, with a genetic component, and are still 
considered psychological disorders. I know, it is confusing. Think of it 
like this, psychologist sees everything like it is in the head and a 
behavior, and the medical doctor thinks everything as neurological and 
genetic. So neurological and psychological are not mutually exclusive. While 
there are several, the only disorders I can think of off the type of my head 
that don't have some neurological component is post war syndrome, and 
battered wife syndrome, or some deviation of the two. The major difference 
between a neurological and psychological problem is that a neurological 
problem is more greatly impacted (and in many cases helped) by medication.  
Where as a strictly psychological illness is usually best helped with 
counseling. Also, it is very rare that a person has only one diagnoses. Most 
people with a legal diagnoses have two or more, some neurological and some 
strictly psychological as a result of the neurological. So it is often more 
complicated to treat someone with a diagnoses on of problem because another 
problem may be in the way. So in a way, both you and Joan are correct in 
your understanding of a bipolar.

I do agree to a degree that people don't have a great deal of control of 
their disorders. However, it depends on the person and the degree of the 
problem. I would say for most people it is just difficult, but not 
impossible to overcome most symptoms of a disorder. Some people can go 
through life having the genetic components for aspergers, HFA, ADHD, and 
bipolar and not know it their entire lives. For other people one of these 
things can consume their entire life and it takes everything they have to 
try and resist it. For most people I think it is just comes don to willpower 
and how long they put up a defense. I think all people need positive support 
to continue to deal with their disorders, and it is a proven fact, despite 
what Mr. Budge has stated, that people with strong support networks of 
family, friends, professional staff, and peers have a much higher success 
rate of overcoming difficulties then those that don't have this system. 
Supporting them is a major factor in both success of helping a person and 
keeping taxes low.

Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold



>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>To: "'Joan Opyr'" <auntiestablishment at hotmail.com>,        "'David M. 
>Budge'" <dave at davebudge.com>
>CC: "'Vision2020 Moscow'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Drunks, drugs, and the empathy factor
>Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 16:04:45 -0800
>
>Joan wrote:
>"What I wonder, and what I'd like to ask you about, is what you think can 
>be
>done in terms of treating not the symptoms of addiction, the drinking and
>the drugging, but the underlying psychological causes?  My father was a
>sociopath and a narcissist; my grandfather was an untreated (and, until 
>late
>in life, undiagnosed) manic-depressive."
>
>Ah, Joan . . . I think you're just trying to bait me, or else giving me an
>opportunity to get on my soapbox again  ;-)
>
>I won't dispute your assessment of your father's problems as being
>psychological, but I do insist on correcting the notion that bipolar
>disorder (AKA manic-depression) is psychological.  Certainly, there are
>psychological *effects*, but bipolar disorder itself is thought to be a
>neurobiological disorder, most likely related to a neurotransmitter
>imbalance and oftentimes with a genetic component.  At least, that's where
>the current thinking is and what the research shows:  it's a *physical*,
>rather than emotional/psychological, disorder.  All the therapy in the 
>world
>isn't going to do a whole lot of good until the underlying neurobiological
>disorder is managed.
>
>And, getting somewhat back to the topic, if one is dealing with a bipolar
>(diagnosed or not) addict, adding antidepressants -- including SSRIs -- can
>be a bad, BAD strategy when not given in conjunction with mood stabilizers,
>preferably after giving the mood stabilizer(s) time to work.
>
>One more thing:  I don't mean to attack addiction, but I find it absolutely
>REPUGNANT that there are more resources out there for folks suffering from
>addiction than there are for people suffering from neurobiological 
>disorders
>over which they never had any control.  Of course, I'm a bleeding heart
>liberal who wants to help all those who want it, and that includes addicts.
>BUT, when employers start limiting health benefits (in part) because of the
>high costs of treating addiction, then I think we have an obligation to 
>make
>sure those who have illnesses/disorders/diseases over which they have no
>control DON'T wind up with the short end of the stick.  Most unfortunately,
>that's what's happening now, particularly with children.
>
>
>Off My Soapbox,
>Saundra Lund
>Moscow, ID
>
>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>nothing.
>Edmund Burke
>
>
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