[Vision2020] buffalo

Sat Feb 19 23:05:31 PST 2005

I thought the joke was funny. Not hilarious, but I "got" it ... it touched a
nerve.  I could relate to it ... on many levels.  Maybe it was because I was
lead down my own preconceived path (yes, I grew up with the Lone Ranger &
Spagetti Westerns [is that another derrogatory term?] and then the twist at
the end.  Maybe it was because at the end I saw, the irony of the joke was
on a slam of white male businessmen, and as a white croatian/anglo/american
male business owner, I can relate to that.  Maybe its that I've recently
read about the Nez Perce's perception of derrogation from the word "squaw"
and I can read a direct corollary with what's in the local news.  Maybe it's
just some automatic chemical/neuronal/synaptic response that I have learne
to control yet.  Or maybe its that I could connect with my persona of
ancestral ethnocentrism of the eastern Adriatic coastal region.  What the
hell does that mean?

I grew up in a town (size of Moscow) with strong subcultural ethnic roots,
the us vs them.  The Croations vs Italians.  It wasn't violent, it wasn't
overtly nasty, it wasn't born of my generation, but it was there.  I heard
words, I saw jestures, I could sense it, but what "was" it?  As I grew older
my perception of it changed.  Early on, I couldn't put the pieces together
... why do these nice people think these nice people are "bad"?  Through
normal adolescent cognitive development, I was able to "read" what was going
on.  It wasn't nice vs nice, it was us vs them.  And I got older, I began to
understand that us vs them is human nature - it's been with us since ...
forever.  As I learn more, I can sense when other people recognized an us vs
them theme.  Two sad characteritcs of mankind: the inablity of some members
to recognize our inherant nature, and the deliberate exploition of it for
injurious intent.  One funny character of mankind is that there are those
that will "play" (literally) off that very nature, and some get paid well
for that entertainment.

Knowing the sender's intent is primary in understanding the true meaning of
the message.  If one wants to only understand oneself (personality,
nationality, ethos) one will listen only to oneself.  Understanding how
someone else is paying the price for your entertainment, is a good start at
knowing yourself.  I know when to use the terms cheese-head, retard, polock,
dago, whop, nigger, squaw, rag-head, Tonto to mean what I intend.  But what
I intend and what others hear are not the same.  Aural perception is not the
same as cognitive manipulation.

...time-out, Red Green is
on..........................................................................
......................................................... o.k., I'm back
..... I had to wait for the end to hear the Possum Lodge prayer, "I'm a man,
but I can change, if I have to ... I guess."  Ya'know, this show touches a
nerve.  Some of you won't know what the hell I'm talking about.  My wife
would rather watch soaps, than Red Green.  O.k., the point is that some of
you will "see" the humor in this, others (most) won't.  But beyond that, I
like the show. (if you haven't heard of the show: http://www.redgreen.com/ )

At the end of any joke, conversation, agreement, statement, seminar, board
meeting, I read a lot into it.  But maybe it's only me that reads that into
it.  Ya'know, sometimes I feel just like Doug Stambler.  Fighting for my
cause, knowing others are out there, but not being able to "pull it off."
Just one dollar short or just one day late.  Just like Doug, I can move on.
I won't need bus fair, but I won't be back either ... at least for five
years, maybe then I'll want to live here.  It isn't a spontaneous notion, it
is well planned ... at least time-frames set.  It's a matter of time either
direction.

I hope people understand this message , but I sense the futility that most
will only understand my intent, by the words I use or "complimentary close"
I use, rather than the concept of the email or what's in my mind.  I did
snicker a little at the end of the joke, but I respectfully subsided...then
snickered a little more ... just a little...  Would I have posted it on
V2020?  No, that's not in my taste.  LuJane - Lizzie Rules!

...oh, and ...... ahh heck... I am tired. I'm going to bed . . . acutally
uh, I gotta go to work!

What the hell does that mean,
Mark

Mark Seman, Architect
Heather Seman, Landscape Architect
1404 East 'F' Street  Moscow, Idaho 83843
v 208-883-3276 / f 208-883-0112

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of LuJane Nisse
publisher
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:50 PM
To: hayfields at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] buffalo

well I think the conversation got away from the "joke" per se. And more just
the changing of terms. (in my mind anyway).
Giving fellow men respect goes both ways too... if I slip and say a
non-political correct term in innocent, I should not get slammed.
It seems everyone is pretty touchy.
I guess you can go into a sermon about being touchy because of past
injustice. Yeah, I get it. It isn't fun being a minority and feeling left
out because of something you really can't control.

ahh heck... I am tired. I'm going to bed.

-----Original Message-----
From: hayfields at moscow.com [mailto:hayfields at moscow.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:35 PM
To: lujane at lataheagle.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] buffalo

Why does the joke have to be associated with a race, gender, creed...
whatever?  If the joke just isn't funny if you can't tell it without
associating it with a race, creed, gender... maybe that joke isn't funny,
just offensive.   As far as I could tell MH wasn't quibbling about the
word Indian but about the racial stereotype. Maybe Indian wasn't the
preferred term, but from my point of view it was the least offensive part
of the joke.  Again, why not just apologize and try to do better next
time.
I always get concerned when people use the term "politically correct" as
a scapegoat for not trying to think about what we say.  To say that it is
just too hard to remain "politically correct" is to give up on the idea
that we should all be working every day to grant to our fellow humans the
dignity and respect they deserve. And it has nothing to do with
being "politically correct".  That term in and of itself implies that we
are only doing it because someday it might cause us problems, not becuase
we actually care.  And I am sure that nothing could be further from the
truth.

Geez, maybe I will have to follow Joan's example and start my own church,
sorry for the sermon!
Heather Jordan.

When we make a mistake, we can always apologize and thank the person who
corrected us, they have just done us a great service.

What is so hard about that?
> let me explain (some)... As a child African Americans were called a lot
of
> things - racist YES and I hate that (I grew up in the 50s and 60s) I
never
> bought into the slang but the politically correct word if I remember
right
> was Negro. As I got older the phrase changed to black and then African
> American. Maybe there was another one in there someplace.
> Native Americans ... the same.
> SOOOO
> I HAVE to think hard before I speak to figure out which word is the
right
> one these days. I've had to learn and unlearn several and my old brain
is
> not retaining like it used to. I never want to offend people but I hate
that
> I have to walk on eggshells hoping I chose the right phrase. If I didn't
> care, it wouldn't matter.
> Maybe you all are young enough to not have these same types of problems.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hayfields at moscow.com [mailto:hayfields at moscow.com]
> Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:07 PM
> To: lujane at lataheagle.com; lfalen at turbonet.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] buffalo
>
>
>
> Isn't that an interesting statement.
>   "everything almost these days is racist or politically incorrect.
> Difficult  to even talk these days with breaking egg shells."
>
> I find that if one thinks before one speaks (or types) it isn't hard at
> all.  I find it amazing that people throw around that
phrase "politically
> incorrect", when what they mean is :it was so much easier when we didn't
> have to think about how our words can impact others.  When minority
> groups just ignored all the racist, thoughtless things that leak out of
> our mouths.
> Forget the 'politically incorrect' stuff.  Thats just a smokescreen. How
> about just showing compassion and bestowing dignity on every person? And
> when we mess up and do say something stupid, (and we all do) why not
> acknowledge our mistake and just apologize.  "I'm sorry and it won't
> happen again, thank you for letting me know." Wow what a concept.
>
> Heather Jordan
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> > [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of lfalen
> > Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 4:19 PM
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Subject: [Vision2020] buffalo
> >
> >
> > Re: Melynda Huskey's comment. It never occurred to me that the joke
> might be
> > taken as racist. It was a joke on upper management. I think you are a
> little
> > thin skinned. I hve some Indian blood and it did not even cross my
mind
> that
> > it might be taken as racist.

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