[Vision2020] Re: Noam Chomsky and other concerns

[David M. Budge]

Joan wrote: " I can't leave the Democratic Party.  I never leave any 
party until all the booze is gone, and I'm wearing the lamp shade on my 
head. "

Hey, Ted Kennedy has been trying to end the party for some decades now.  
One more term and you'll be ready to take your leave. Hope springs 
eternal. (Yes, yes, I know... cheap shot.)

As for Howard's yawp (which I spelled "yaup" as my inability to spell is 
only outdone by my ability to write torturous run-on sentances , but I'm 
thinking Uncle Wally would forgive if he were alive today) was, well, 
rather poetical (sic).  I'm looking forward to four more years.

Dave Budge

ps.  I've gotta fact check you on the numbers from The Lancet but 
Spiritual Advisor #1 (my now 9 year old daughter) requires a birthday 
party for which I'm the chef.  Today's menu: pasta topped with olive 
oil, artichoke hearts, calamata olives, fresh basil, garlic, red peppers 
and a splash of lemon juice for brightness.  Sounds far superior to 
Chomsky, Horowitz, Paglia or Hitchens doesn't it.

Joan Opyr wrote:

> David, I certainly apologize for putting words in your mouth -- that 
> was not my intention.  As you can no doubt tell, the name "David 
> Horowitz" has a less than salubrious effect on me.  In fact, it's 
> downright Pavlovian.  He makes me want to bite someone.  This time, I 
> guess it was you.
>  
> I am not as suspicious of The Lancet's figures as you are because The 
> Lancet is tracking the body count via Iraqi hospital reports.  Not 
> coincidentally, we began our bombing campaign -- our shock and awe -- 
> with targeted hospital bombings.  This suggests to me that we (meaning 
> the US) didn't want an accurate civilian body count.  But why 
> quibble?  Shall we split the difference between 30,000 and 100,000 and 
> call it 50,000?  I don't know about you (except that you are hardly 
> hunlike in any of your arguments) but 50,000 doesn't make me feel any 
> better.  And I don't think it's correct.  It is possible that The 
> Lancet is counting the victims of car bombings.  Those aren't directly 
> our fault -- though I suppose that, too, is arguable.  (Ted?  Tom?  
> Feel free to jump in here.)
>  
> Now, speaking of putting words in mouths, I don't support pulling out 
> of Iraq now.  In fact, I support the Colin Powell position: we broke 
> it; we bought it.  It is now our moral obligation to see this thing 
> through.  But it will cost us, and it will cost us dearly.  People on 
> this list have recalled our "democratization" of Japan and tried to 
> use that as a justification and a projection of what we might do in 
> Iraq.  I think we can both agree that that is a poor analogy: first, 
> we completely and utterly defeated Japan.  We razed Hiroshima and 
> Nagasaki to the ground, atomically.  Then, we occupied the country 
> with 300,000 troops for ten years.  That doesn't seem to be our plan 
> for Iraq.  I can't tell that we have a plan for Iraq.  What I fear is 
> a quick and dirty pull-out, something akin to our departure from 
> Saigon.  We'll leave a lot of "collaborators" behind to be massacred 
> by their own, and we'll find that the Middle East is more unstable 
> than when we began this misadventure.  But then we can't let that 
> happen, can we?  So how will we get more troops to Iraq?  No, wait -- 
> how will we get more troops, period?  We're not meeting our recruiting 
> quotas, so, well, you do the math.  I'm only on my first cup of coffee.
>  
> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>  
> PS: I can't leave the Democratic Party.  I never leave any party until 
> all the booze is gone, and I'm wearing the lamp shade on my head.  And 
> you can gawp all you like; I think Howard Dean is da bomb.  He was a 
> great governor of Vermont; he speaks his mind; and the Party 
> establishment hates him.  That, at the moment, is good enough for me.
>  
>
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