[Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting

Tue Dec 20 14:54:39 PST 2005

 Donovan, Donovan, Donovan, there you go again assuming the worst.

The reason I asked the question is because I really want to know the answer,
not be attacked for asking the question.

Back when I worked for a non-profit dedicated to serve the needs to the
economically disadvantaged (including the working poor), the elderly, and
the disabled, we *did* offer such a class that also included the locations
and hours of the area's food banks.  However, it was consistently
under-utilized in spite of a good deal of effort trying to increase
awareness of this resource.

That was many years ago, and I don't know if that resource is still
available there, let alone if any similar resources are available here in
Latah County.  That's why I asked the question, and it might be something
I'd volunteer to help with.

It is offensive and absolutely incorrect for you to attribute to me
insulting the intelligence of the economically disadvantaged.  Why is it
you're so quick to assume such a dreadful thing???  Having had the honor
(and, yes, I consider it an honor) of having spent a huge chunk of my
professional life working with special populations, insulting intelligence
is not something I'd ever do, and SHAME on YOU for implying otherwise.

It is also incredibly offensive and insulting for you to think you have any
qualification whatsoever to preach to me about the plight of the
economically disadvantaged.  In addition to my professional experience, I
*was* one of the economically disadvantaged.  Until you've walked a mile in
my shoes as the single parent (of an infant) going to school full-time,
working full-time between two jobs, paying for child care, *not* eligible
for food stamps, and having to make the agonizing decision between buying
the antibiotic or the humidifier for a baby diagnosed with pneumonia because
I couldn't afford both, not to mention the day-to-day struggles, you'd do
best to hold your tongue.  Shame on you!

Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
Edmund Burke

***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra Lund.
Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
without the express written permission of the author.*****

-----Original Message-----
From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 2:28 PM
To: Saundra Lund; 'keely emerinemix'; vision2020 at moscow.com; 'Julie Crumley'
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting

Saundra,

"Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?"

You are right. The reason that so many poor families cannot make it on $200
a month for grocery shopping at Safeway is because they are too stupid to
know how to read advertisements or clip coupons.  

Perhaps you can donate your time and talented bargain shopping skills by
teaching them how to make it comfortably on a $800 a month paycheck and $200
in food stamps, especially since rent is now at least $450 a month. 

Better yet, why don't you show us by making a list of what items a family of
four shopping at Safeway can eat on a $200 food budget. And let us not
forget, that in a family of four, chances are that at least one will be on
either a diabetic, low sodium, or low fat diet. Do not forget that you can
only eat potatoes and smack romen for so many years.

If you can do this, I suggest you drop it off at Inclusion North, the
Catholic Church, Stepping Stones, the Nazarene Church, and Community Action
Center; a lot of people would benefit from it. 

Take Care,

_DJA

Saundra Lund <sslund at adelphia.net> wrote:

	I have to agree with Julie & Keely in that I'm very pleased with
shopping at
	Safeway, and at Rosauers, too, and I still miss Tidymans . While
	there have been a few occasions at both Safeway & Rosauers when
checkout
	took longer than I'd have liked, it was the exception rather than
the rule.
	Back when I shopped at Wal-Mart, however, checkout always took
***way*** too
	long.

	With respect to prices, I also have to agree with Keely :-) And, I
have to
	add that my daughter & I managed to survive back in the days when I
was poor
	and there was no Wal-Mart.

	But, perhaps that's because the shopping habits I learned growing up
and
	followed as a smart but very poor consumer. I shopped the ads, tried
to
	plan meals around what's on sale, compared prices, and stocked up on
staples
	when prices were good. This works particularly well in Moscow since
the
	stores (with the exception of the Palouse Mall) are relatively close
since
	Moscow is relatively small. Even when I was *really* financially
strapped,
	I was able to eat pretty well, and now that I don't *have* to count
every
	penny (literally), old habits die hard & still work well :-)

	Certainly transportation factors in & I realize I was fortunate that
I had
	good friends I could catch rides with when I had no transportation.

	Nonetheless, with all the talk about how "expensive" Safeway is, I'm
	wondering if smart shopping is a skill others never learned?

	Saundra Lund
	Moscow, ID

	The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people
to do
	nothing.
	Edmund Burke

	***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2005, Saundra
Lund.
	Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
forum
	without the express written permission of the author.*****

	-----Original Message-----
	From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
	On Behalf Of keely emerinemix
	Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:16 PM
	To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; thansen at moscow.com;
vision2020 at moscow.com
	Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting

	I think this is unfair. Safeway's prices are usually pretty good,
just as
	Rosauer's are, and sometimes they're both even better than Winco.
Sometimes
	not. Contrary to what Courtney says, those of us who are opposed to
a
	WalMart Supercenter aren't trying to reduce your shopping choices --
there
	is a WalMart here already, and you can buy your pop and buns
wherever you
	want. The WalMart battle is about something else entirely, and
unfairly
	maligning grocery stores is a poor way to make the pro-WalMart point
you
	want to.

	I live right by Safeway, and so I shop there most often. For all
it's
	worth, I think the service there is great, especially in pharmacy,
deli and
	produce. If you want to shop at WalMart -- the one we have right
here -- go
	ahead. But please don't plan your monthly budget around the
beneficient
	presence in your life that is WalMart, because there's very little
evidence
	that WalMart is interested in yours or anyone else's wellbeing.

	keely

	From: Donovan Arnold 
	To: Tom Hansen , vision2020 at moscow.com
	Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Wal-Mart meeting
	Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:20:04 -0800 (PST)

	"And just what is Safeway?"

	Safeway is a giant convenience store that poor people cannot afford.

	Many of their customers only go there to save time from running
across
	town. Compare, Safeway- $4.50 for a lb of meat, and $5.50 for a 12
pack of
	soda. $2 for a bag of hamburger buns. Compare to Wal-Mart or Win-Co,
$5 for
	a 20 pack of soda, 68 cents for a bag of hamburger buns, and $2.25
for lb a
	meat. Feeding a family on $200 a month, what would you do? Wal-Mart,
	Win-Co, and Safeway get almost all of their food goods from US and
Canadian
	farmers. I go to Safeway because it is close to my apartment. There
prices
	are through the roof, and their lines are long and slow. Not to
mention I
	frequently catch them ringing my food up for a higher price then
they
	advertised it to be, I caught them three times in one month
overcharging
	me, then you have to argue with over it, and half the time the price
	difference is not worth the arguing. I will say though that Eric,
the
	general manager, is nice guy.
	Wal-Mart coming in on the east side will save me no less than $75 a
	month, and for a college student, that is a great deal of money.

	-DJA

	Tom Hansen wrote: 
	st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Arnold stated:

	“So my guess is that it [addition of a Wal-Mart superstore] would
have
	the same impact as it is having now with one exception;

	The only thing new is a grocery store on the east side of town.”

	And just what is Safeway?

	Tom Hansen
	Moscow, Idaho

	“I think one of the best ways to support education is to make
	successful private schools like Logos prosper through tax
exemption.”

	- Donovan Arnold (July 11, 2005)

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