[Vision2020] Re: business parking
J Ford
privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Thu Dec 15 23:53:29 PST 2005
Seems to me you are missing part of the point - the issue is not JUST the
fact that NSA students take up parking spots, but they do so for HOURS and
HOURS. People who are shopping downtown do not take several hours, much
less the whole day, in a parking spot.
J ;)
>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "B. J. Swanson" <bjswan at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: business parking
>Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 19:13:04 -0800
>
>Ms. Swanson, This doesn't seem unreasonable, particularly if grant monies
>can be found to fund the study. However my point remains. No matter what is
>occupying the former GTE building there will be competition for parking
>spaces, and if the definition of "parking problem" is not being able to
>park within 10 Yards of your destination, the problem will be perpetual.
>
>Respectfully, G. Crabtree--- Original Message ----- From: "B. J. Swanson"
><bjswan at moscow.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 4:31 PM
>Subject: [Vision2020] Re: business parking
>
>
>>Gary,
>>
>>My point exactly. You found empty spaces yesterday, I didn't, others had
>>to drive around awhile. Timing, utilization, inventory, need are all
>>things that neither you nor I are experts in. The solution is to do a
>>PLAN as outlined in Linda Pall's memo to the City Administrative Committee
>>Monday afternoon. Moscow has utilized professional plans in the past to
>>kick-off a number of projects including the 1999 Comprehensive Plan, the
>>vacation of 8th Street, Downtown Revitalization, etc. All of these
>>projects were controversial in the beginning, but the professional plan
>>was able to smooth out the problems and accomplish good things for the
>>community. Allowing educational institutions Downtown is moving in a
>>whole new direction. A professional, independent study of the impact of
>>NSA or any educational institution on the Downtown would go a long way to
>>guide the best possible decision for now and in the future. It would also
>>give a jumpstart to updating the current Comprehensive Plan. There may
>>even be grant funds available to do this.
>>
>>B. J. Swanson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Today 12/15/05 10:40 A.M. 39 available spaces not counting handicapped
>>or
>>>spaces lost to snow 12:22 P.M. 12 spaces not counting the two available
>>on
>>>fourth st. As you probably know I am downtown extremely often in the
>>course
>>>of my job and have something of a feel for the parking situation.
>>Parking
>>>can be tight, but not appreciably worse now then 4-5 years ago. Pre
>>N.S.A.
>>>
>>>GC
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "B. J. Swanson" <bjswan at moscow.com>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:27 AM
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Re: business parking
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Hmmm... Black Friday, NSA not in session, not suprising that there
>>were 22
>>> > empty parking spaces. By NSA's own calculations, they use about 80
>>> > spaces. 22 minus 80 equals -58. It's easy to tell when all Downtown
>>> > parking is taken because then our lot is used by non-bank customers,
>>too.
>>> >
>>> > I cruised Downtown twice yesterday and found NO empty spaces either
>>time.
>>> > I think an independent parking/economic impact study would put this
>>issue
>>> > to rest. Linda Pall suggested the Conditional Use Permit language
>>> > include "...plans, including student enrollment, staff on site, site
>>> > development and future utilization schedules." An excellent idea for
>>ANY
>>> > educational institution that wants to be Downtown.
>>> >
>>> > B. J. Swanson
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: g. crabtree
>>> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 7:28 AM
>>> >> Subject: business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Mr. Hansen, you would be correct about the "deprived owners" if
>>there
>>> >> were not parking spots thirty steps from any other spot. On "black
>>> >> Friday" at 12:30 P.M. I counted over twenty empty spaces mostly
>>>behind
>>> >> the book store and bike shop. If there was truly a problem I don't
>>think
>>> >> this would have been the case.
>>> >>
>>> >> As to your suggestions about meters and/or permits, I think that
>>this
>>> >> would be just fine. However I don't think the merchants would be very
>>> >> enthusiastic.
>>> >>
>>> >> And finally, your humble opinion on my "Christianity." I will again
>>> >> consider the source and file it away with Mrs. Opyr's thoughts on my
>>> >> health, betterment, and general comportment.
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tom Hansen
>>> >> To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Joan Opyr' ; 'Vision2020 Moscow'
>>> >> Cc: 'Linda Pall' ; 'Nancy Chaney' ; 'Lois Blackburn' ; 'John
>>> >> Dickinson'
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:09 AM
>>> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Gee, Gee, Gee -
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps the students, "staff", and "faculty" of NSA are legally
>>> >> permitted to park in the Jackson Street parking lot. However, each
>>> >> parking spot occupied by persons, other than owners and customers of
>>> >> retail outlets located on Main Street, deprives the owners of those
>>> >> retail outlets of an opportunity to earn an honest buck.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In my humble opinion Christianity entails decency within
>>>community
>>> >> support (doing right by your community), a characteristic not
>>>directly
>>> >> attributable to your postings and/or suggestions.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps one suggestion might be to meter the Jackson Street
>>parking
>>> >> lot. Another might be to require city parking permits (much like UI
>>> >> parking permits).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thoughts?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Tom Hansen
>>> >>
>>> >> Moscow, Idaho
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
>>> >> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather
>>to
>>> >> skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other, body
>>> >> thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a
>>> >> ride!'"
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>---
>>> >> ---
>>> >>
>>> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> >> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:07 PM
>>> >> To: Joan Opyr; Vision2020 Moscow
>>> >> Cc: Linda Pall; Nancy Chaney; Lois Blackburn; John Dickinson
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Ms Opyr, It is amazing how consisantly you almost get it right.
>>> >> Folks in apts. downtown park for days on end in the jackson st. lot
>>and
>>> >> still spare spaces. N.S.A. students come & go as well as shop
>>downtown.
>>> >> The only time parking seems to be difficult is at times N.S.A. is not
>>in
>>> >> session--farmers market & after 5:00 etc.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Error number two would be that I am not the owner of the Lock
>>Shop.
>>> >> I am but the lowly cook & bottle washer, But thanks for the
>>> >> promotion(aww and you pretend that ya don't like me)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Error number three. Faulty comparisons. "Third Street Mall"
>>parking
>>> >> lot is private property. Jackson st. is public. Co-Op customers
>>>parked
>>> >> in front of my place of employment all the time, as was their right.
>>> >> There are no signs advising customers of the shopping center not too.
>>> >> The Co-Op was, all in all, a good neighbor and while parking was
>>> >> sometimes tight, we did O.K. I expect it will be the same with our
>>>new
>>> >> tennants.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> With regard to your recomendations for my health and personal
>>> >> betterment, Thank you. I will consider the source and take them under
>>> >> advisement.
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>
>>> >> From: Joan Opyr
>>> >>
>>> >> To: Vision2020 Moscow
>>> >>
>>> >> Cc: Linda Pall ; Nancy Chaney ; Lois Blackburn ; John Dickinson
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:03 PM
>>> >>
>>> >> Subject: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 14 Dec 2005, at 05:56, g. crabtree wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> With regard to my brief answer to the question of allowing
>>N.S.A.
>>> >> the right to have it's students and staff park downtown, I really
>>don't
>>> >> see how it could confuse you. It strikes me as massively unfair to
>>> >> single them out for some kind of burdensome parking restriction. All
>>> >> businesses downtown us up parking to one degree or another.
>>Restaurants,
>>> >> coffee shops, and apartments all require parking. I suspect that
>>> >> residents at the Moscow Hotel use up far more parking in the Jackson
>>st.
>>> >> lot than the school does and there is still plenty of left over
>>spaces.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> The reason NSA should be "singled out" in terms of parking, Mr.
>>> >> Crabtree, is because NSA is not a business. It is a college. Its
>>> >> students don't park for an hour and then leave; they come and park
>>>for
>>> >> several hours. Some park in the Jackson lot all day. The businesses
>>> >> dependent on the Jackson lot -- Bookpeople, Paradise Creek Bicycles,
>>> >> Sweet Peas and Sage, the Wild Hare, and the various restaurants in
>>>the
>>> >> Central Business District need that parking for their customers. If
>>> >> people can't find parking downtown, then people will stop shopping
>>> >> downtown. They'll go instead to the mall.
>>> >>
>>> >> U of I students and employees pay for the privilege of parking
>>on
>>> >> campus. NSA students pay nothing to park in the Jackson Street lot.
>>> >> What's more, their parking is subsidized by the tax-paying businesses
>>> >> downtown. This is unfair; it's detrimental to downtown retail; and
>>it's
>>> >> a pain in the ass for both customers and shop-keepers. According to
>>city
>>> >> zoning ordinance, NSA should not be in the Central Business District.
>>If
>>> >> the code is amended to allow them to stay, then something must be
>>>done
>>> >> to ensure that NSA's 150 to 200 students (their projected growth)
>>don't
>>> >> clog up parking for retail. Surely as the owner of the Lock Shop in
>>the
>>> >> Third Street Mall, you can appreciate having your business parking
>>> >> hogged up by non-customers. For years, Food Co-Op customers parked in
>>> >> front of your shop despite the clear signs asking them not to. (I
>>didn't
>>> >> park in front of your shop; I respected your signs advising me not
>>to. I
>>> >> also didn't want to be towed.)
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, I apologize for suggesting you might benefit from a dose
>>>of
>>> >> Fletcher's Castoria. My friend, Dr. Seuss, has advised me that re:
>>>the
>>> >> Mack Trailer Park evictions, constipation is not your problem -- it's
>>> >> just that your heart is four sizes too small. The good doctor
>>suggests a
>>> >> diet of Roast Beast and a rousing chorus of "Bah-hoo Doray" with
>>>Cindy
>>> >> Lou Who.
>>> >>
>>> >> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>>> >> www.joanopyr.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>---
>>> >> -
>>> >>
>>> >> _____________________________________________________
>>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >>
>>> >> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯
>>> >>
>>> >> Mr. Hansen, you would be correct about the "deprived owners" if
>>> >> there were not parking spots thirty steps from any other spot.
>>On "black
>>> >> Friday" at 12:30 P.M. I counted over twenty empty spaces mostly
>>>behind
>>> >> the book store and bike shop. If there was truly a problem I don't
>>think
>>> >> this would have been the case.
>>> >>
>>> >> As to your suggestions about meters and/or permits, I think
>>>that
>>> >> this would be just fine. However I don't think the merchants would
>>>be
>>> >> very enthusiastic.
>>> >>
>>> >> And finally, your humble opinion on my "Christianity." I will
>>> >> again consider the source and file it away with Mrs. Opyr's thoughts
>>on
>>> >> my health, betterment, and general comportment.
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Tom Hansen
>>> >> To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Joan Opyr' ; 'Vision2020 Moscow'
>>> >> Cc: 'Linda Pall' ; 'Nancy Chaney' ; 'Lois Blackburn' ; 'John
>>> >> Dickinson'
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:09 AM
>>> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Gee, Gee, Gee -
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps the students, "staff", and "faculty" of NSA are
>>legally
>>> >> permitted to park in the Jackson Street parking lot. However, each
>>> >> parking spot occupied by persons, other than owners and customers of
>>> >> retail outlets located on Main Street, deprives the owners of those
>>> >> retail outlets of an opportunity to earn an honest buck.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> In my humble opinion Christianity entails decency within
>>> >> community support (doing right by your community), a characteristic
>>not
>>> >> directly attributable to your postings and/or suggestions.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps one suggestion might be to meter the Jackson Street
>>> >> parking lot. Another might be to require city parking permits (much
>>> >> like UI parking permits).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Thoughts?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Tom Hansen
>>> >>
>>> >> Moscow, Idaho
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the
>>>intention
>>> >> of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but
>>rather
>>> >> to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other,
>>>body
>>> >> thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a
>>> >> ride!'"
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--
>>> >>
>>> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>> >> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:07 PM
>>> >> To: Joan Opyr; Vision2020 Moscow
>>> >> Cc: Linda Pall; Nancy Chaney; Lois Blackburn; John Dickinson
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Ms Opyr, It is amazing how consisantly you almost get it
>>right.
>>> >> Folks in apts. downtown park for days on end in the jackson st. lot
>>and
>>> >> still spare spaces. N.S.A. students come & go as well as shop
>>downtown.
>>> >> The only time parking seems to be difficult is at times N.S.A. is not
>>in
>>> >> session--farmers market & after 5:00 etc.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Error number two would be that I am not the owner of the Lock
>>> >> Shop. I am but the lowly cook & bottle washer, But thanks for the
>>> >> promotion(aww and you pretend that ya don't like me)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Error number three. Faulty comparisons. "Third Street Mall"
>>> >> parking lot is private property. Jackson st. is public. Co-Op
>>customers
>>> >> parked in front of my place of employment all the time, as was their
>>> >> right. There are no signs advising customers of the shopping center
>>not
>>> >> too. The Co-Op was, all in all, a good neighbor and while parking was
>>> >> sometimes tight, we did O.K. I expect it will be the same with our
>>>new
>>> >> tennants.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> With regard to your recomendations for my health and personal
>>> >> betterment, Thank you. I will consider the source and take them under
>>> >> advisement.
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>
>>> >> From: Joan Opyr
>>> >>
>>> >> To: Vision2020 Moscow
>>> >>
>>> >> Cc: Linda Pall ; Nancy Chaney ; Lois Blackburn ; John
>>> >> Dickinson
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:03 PM
>>> >>
>>> >> Subject: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 14 Dec 2005, at 05:56, g. crabtree wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> With regard to my brief answer to the question of allowing
>>> >> N.S.A. the right to have it's students and staff park downtown, I
>>really
>>> >> don't see how it could confuse you. It strikes me as massively unfair
>>to
>>> >> single them out for some kind of burdensome parking restriction. All
>>> >> businesses downtown us up parking to one degree or another.
>>Restaurants,
>>> >> coffee shops, and apartments all require parking. I suspect that
>>> >> residents at the Moscow Hotel use up far more parking in the Jackson
>>st.
>>> >> lot than the school does and there is still plenty of left over
>>spaces.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> The reason NSA should be "singled out" in terms of parking,
>>> >> Mr. Crabtree, is because NSA is not a business. It is a college. Its
>>> >> students don't park for an hour and then leave; they come and park
>>>for
>>> >> several hours. Some park in the Jackson lot all day. The businesses
>>> >> dependent on the Jackson lot -- Bookpeople, Paradise Creek Bicycles,
>>> >> Sweet Peas and Sage, the Wild Hare, and the various restaurants in
>>>the
>>> >> Central Business District need that parking for their customers. If
>>> >> people can't find parking downtown, then people will stop shopping
>>> >> downtown. They'll go instead to the mall.
>>> >>
>>> >> U of I students and employees pay for the privilege of
>>parking
>>> >> on campus. NSA students pay nothing to park in the Jackson Street
>>>lot.
>>> >> What's more, their parking is subsidized by the tax-paying businesses
>>> >> downtown. This is unfair; it's detrimental to downtown retail; and
>>it's
>>> >> a pain in the ass for both customers and shop-keepers. According to
>>city
>>> >> zoning ordinance, NSA should not be in the Central Business District.
>>If
>>> >> the code is amended to allow them to stay, then something must be
>>>done
>>> >> to ensure that NSA's 150 to 200 students (their projected growth)
>>don't
>>> >> clog up parking for retail. Surely as the owner of the Lock Shop in
>>the
>>> >> Third Street Mall, you can appreciate having your business parking
>>> >> hogged up by non-customers. For years, Food Co-Op customers parked in
>>> >> front of your shop despite the clear signs asking them not to. (I
>>didn't
>>> >> park in front of your shop; I respected your signs advising me not
>>to. I
>>> >> also didn't want to be towed.)
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, I apologize for suggesting you might benefit from a
>>dose
>>> >> of Fletcher's Castoria. My friend, Dr. Seuss, has advised me that re:
>>> >> the Mack Trailer Park evictions, constipation is not your problem --
>>> >> it's just that your heart is four sizes too small. The good doctor
>>> >> suggests a diet of Roast Beast and a rousing chorus of "Bah-hoo
>>>Doray"
>>> >> with Cindy Lou Who.
>>> >>
>>> >> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>>> >> www.joanopyr.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
>>> >> _____________________________________________________
>>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> >> http://www.fsr.net
>>> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >>
>>> >> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------------
>>> > This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>>> > http://www.fsr.com/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _____________________________________________________
>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------
>>This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>> http://www.fsr.com/
>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________
>>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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