[Vision2020] Re: business parking
Kit Craine
kcraine at moscow.com
Thu Dec 15 18:40:41 PST 2005
Hear. Hear.
We need professionally collected data that represents the situation
over time. I, my self, was downtown last week trying to find a spot to
park so I could do a bit of holiday shopping as Scott’s florist’s. No
luck--the closest spot I could find was at the POST OFFICE. It took me
3 days to get into their lot so I could check my box. I finally had to
do my business over the phone--something I detest because I like
talking to the people I buy things from.
There’s no point in arguing whether there is a problem based on luck.
We need an objective (i.e. read some body not embroiled in our
political mess) assessment.
Kit Craine
P.S. If any of you are looking for a great gift for someone who has
everything, get flowers. Scott’s will deliver beautiful bouquets on a
regular basis. Brightens my mother’s life.
On Dec 15, 2005, at 4:31 PM, B. J. Swanson wrote:
> Gary,
>
> My point exactly. You found empty spaces yesterday, I didn't, others
> had
> to drive around awhile. Timing, utilization, inventory, need are all
> things that neither you nor I are experts in. The solution is to do a
> PLAN as outlined in Linda Pall's memo to the City Administrative
> Committee
> Monday afternoon. Moscow has utilized professional plans in the past
> to
> kick-off a number of projects including the 1999 Comprehensive Plan,
> the
> vacation of 8th Street, Downtown Revitalization, etc. All of these
> projects were controversial in the beginning, but the professional plan
> was able to smooth out the problems and accomplish good things for the
> community. Allowing educational institutions Downtown is moving in a
> whole new direction. A professional, independent study of the impact
> of
> NSA or any educational institution on the Downtown would go a long way
> to
> guide the best possible decision for now and in the future. It would
> also
> give a jumpstart to updating the current Comprehensive Plan. There may
> even be grant funds available to do this.
>
> B. J. Swanson
>
>
>
>
>> Today 12/15/05 10:40 A.M. 39 available spaces not counting handicapped
> or
>> spaces lost to snow 12:22 P.M. 12 spaces not counting the two
>> available
> on
>> fourth st. As you probably know I am downtown extremely often in the
> course
>> of my job and have something of a feel for the parking situation.
> Parking
>> can be tight, but not appreciably worse now then 4-5 years ago. Pre
> N.S.A.
>>
>> GC
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "B. J. Swanson" <bjswan at moscow.com>
>> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 9:27 AM
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Re: business parking
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hmmm... Black Friday, NSA not in session, not suprising that there
> were 22
>>> empty parking spaces. By NSA's own calculations, they use about 80
>>> spaces. 22 minus 80 equals -58. It's easy to tell when all Downtown
>>> parking is taken because then our lot is used by non-bank customers,
> too.
>>>
>>> I cruised Downtown twice yesterday and found NO empty spaces either
> time.
>>> I think an independent parking/economic impact study would put this
> issue
>>> to rest. Linda Pall suggested the Conditional Use Permit language
>>> include "...plans, including student enrollment, staff on site, site
>>> development and future utilization schedules." An excellent idea for
> ANY
>>> educational institution that wants to be Downtown.
>>>
>>> B. J. Swanson
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: g. crabtree
>>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 7:28 AM
>>>> Subject: business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Hansen, you would be correct about the "deprived owners" if
> there
>>>> were not parking spots thirty steps from any other spot. On "black
>>>> Friday" at 12:30 P.M. I counted over twenty empty spaces mostly
>>>> behind
>>>> the book store and bike shop. If there was truly a problem I don't
> think
>>>> this would have been the case.
>>>>
>>>> As to your suggestions about meters and/or permits, I think that
> this
>>>> would be just fine. However I don't think the merchants would be
>>>> very
>>>> enthusiastic.
>>>>
>>>> And finally, your humble opinion on my "Christianity." I will
>>>> again
>>>> consider the source and file it away with Mrs. Opyr's thoughts on my
>>>> health, betterment, and general comportment.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tom Hansen
>>>> To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Joan Opyr' ; 'Vision2020 Moscow'
>>>> Cc: 'Linda Pall' ; 'Nancy Chaney' ; 'Lois Blackburn' ; 'John
>>>> Dickinson'
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:09 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gee, Gee, Gee -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the students, "staff", and "faculty" of NSA are legally
>>>> permitted to park in the Jackson Street parking lot. However, each
>>>> parking spot occupied by persons, other than owners and customers of
>>>> retail outlets located on Main Street, deprives the owners of those
>>>> retail outlets of an opportunity to earn an honest buck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my humble opinion Christianity entails decency within
>>>> community
>>>> support (doing right by your community), a characteristic not
>>>> directly
>>>> attributable to your postings and/or suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one suggestion might be to meter the Jackson Street
> parking
>>>> lot. Another might be to require city parking permits (much like UI
>>>> parking permits).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention
>>>> of
>>>> arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather
> to
>>>> skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other, body
>>>> thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a
>>>> ride!'"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
> ---
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:07 PM
>>>> To: Joan Opyr; Vision2020 Moscow
>>>> Cc: Linda Pall; Nancy Chaney; Lois Blackburn; John Dickinson
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ms Opyr, It is amazing how consisantly you almost get it right.
>>>> Folks in apts. downtown park for days on end in the jackson st. lot
> and
>>>> still spare spaces. N.S.A. students come & go as well as shop
> downtown.
>>>> The only time parking seems to be difficult is at times N.S.A. is
>>>> not
> in
>>>> session--farmers market & after 5:00 etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Error number two would be that I am not the owner of the Lock
> Shop.
>>>> I am but the lowly cook & bottle washer, But thanks for the
>>>> promotion(aww and you pretend that ya don't like me)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Error number three. Faulty comparisons. "Third Street Mall"
> parking
>>>> lot is private property. Jackson st. is public. Co-Op customers
>>>> parked
>>>> in front of my place of employment all the time, as was their right.
>>>> There are no signs advising customers of the shopping center not
>>>> too.
>>>> The Co-Op was, all in all, a good neighbor and while parking was
>>>> sometimes tight, we did O.K. I expect it will be the same with our
>>>> new
>>>> tennants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With regard to your recomendations for my health and personal
>>>> betterment, Thank you. I will consider the source and take them
>>>> under
>>>> advisement.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: Joan Opyr
>>>>
>>>> To: Vision2020 Moscow
>>>>
>>>> Cc: Linda Pall ; Nancy Chaney ; Lois Blackburn ; John
>>>> Dickinson
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:03 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14 Dec 2005, at 05:56, g. crabtree wrote:
>>>>
>>>> With regard to my brief answer to the question of allowing
> N.S.A.
>>>> the right to have it's students and staff park downtown, I really
> don't
>>>> see how it could confuse you. It strikes me as massively unfair to
>>>> single them out for some kind of burdensome parking restriction. All
>>>> businesses downtown us up parking to one degree or another.
> Restaurants,
>>>> coffee shops, and apartments all require parking. I suspect that
>>>> residents at the Moscow Hotel use up far more parking in the Jackson
> st.
>>>> lot than the school does and there is still plenty of left over
> spaces.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The reason NSA should be "singled out" in terms of parking,
>>>> Mr.
>>>> Crabtree, is because NSA is not a business. It is a college. Its
>>>> students don't park for an hour and then leave; they come and park
>>>> for
>>>> several hours. Some park in the Jackson lot all day. The businesses
>>>> dependent on the Jackson lot -- Bookpeople, Paradise Creek Bicycles,
>>>> Sweet Peas and Sage, the Wild Hare, and the various restaurants in
>>>> the
>>>> Central Business District need that parking for their customers. If
>>>> people can't find parking downtown, then people will stop shopping
>>>> downtown. They'll go instead to the mall.
>>>>
>>>> U of I students and employees pay for the privilege of parking
> on
>>>> campus. NSA students pay nothing to park in the Jackson Street lot.
>>>> What's more, their parking is subsidized by the tax-paying
>>>> businesses
>>>> downtown. This is unfair; it's detrimental to downtown retail; and
> it's
>>>> a pain in the ass for both customers and shop-keepers. According to
> city
>>>> zoning ordinance, NSA should not be in the Central Business
>>>> District.
> If
>>>> the code is amended to allow them to stay, then something must be
>>>> done
>>>> to ensure that NSA's 150 to 200 students (their projected growth)
> don't
>>>> clog up parking for retail. Surely as the owner of the Lock Shop in
> the
>>>> Third Street Mall, you can appreciate having your business parking
>>>> hogged up by non-customers. For years, Food Co-Op customers parked
>>>> in
>>>> front of your shop despite the clear signs asking them not to. (I
> didn't
>>>> park in front of your shop; I respected your signs advising me not
> to. I
>>>> also didn't want to be towed.)
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I apologize for suggesting you might benefit from a dose
>>>> of
>>>> Fletcher's Castoria. My friend, Dr. Seuss, has advised me that re:
>>>> the
>>>> Mack Trailer Park evictions, constipation is not your problem --
>>>> it's
>>>> just that your heart is four sizes too small. The good doctor
> suggests a
>>>> diet of Roast Beast and a rousing chorus of "Bah-hoo Doray" with
>>>> Cindy
>>>> Lou Who.
>>>>
>>>> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>>>> www.joanopyr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
> ---
>>>> -
>>>>
>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>
>>>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Hansen, you would be correct about the "deprived owners"
>>>> if
>>>> there were not parking spots thirty steps from any other spot.
> On "black
>>>> Friday" at 12:30 P.M. I counted over twenty empty spaces mostly
>>>> behind
>>>> the book store and bike shop. If there was truly a problem I don't
> think
>>>> this would have been the case.
>>>>
>>>> As to your suggestions about meters and/or permits, I think
>>>> that
>>>> this would be just fine. However I don't think the merchants would
>>>> be
>>>> very enthusiastic.
>>>>
>>>> And finally, your humble opinion on my "Christianity." I will
>>>> again consider the source and file it away with Mrs. Opyr's thoughts
> on
>>>> my health, betterment, and general comportment.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Tom Hansen
>>>> To: 'g. crabtree' ; 'Joan Opyr' ; 'Vision2020 Moscow'
>>>> Cc: 'Linda Pall' ; 'Nancy Chaney' ; 'Lois Blackburn' ; 'John
>>>> Dickinson'
>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 6:09 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gee, Gee, Gee -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the students, "staff", and "faculty" of NSA are
> legally
>>>> permitted to park in the Jackson Street parking lot. However, each
>>>> parking spot occupied by persons, other than owners and customers of
>>>> retail outlets located on Main Street, deprives the owners of those
>>>> retail outlets of an opportunity to earn an honest buck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In my humble opinion Christianity entails decency within
>>>> community support (doing right by your community), a characteristic
> not
>>>> directly attributable to your postings and/or suggestions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one suggestion might be to meter the Jackson Street
>>>> parking lot. Another might be to require city parking permits (much
>>>> like UI parking permits).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>
>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the
>>>> intention
>>>> of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but
> rather
>>>> to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a drink in the other,
>>>> body
>>>> thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'WOO HOO. What a
>>>> ride!'"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
> --
>>>>
>>>> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of g. crabtree
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 10:07 PM
>>>> To: Joan Opyr; Vision2020 Moscow
>>>> Cc: Linda Pall; Nancy Chaney; Lois Blackburn; John Dickinson
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ms Opyr, It is amazing how consisantly you almost get it
> right.
>>>> Folks in apts. downtown park for days on end in the jackson st. lot
> and
>>>> still spare spaces. N.S.A. students come & go as well as shop
> downtown.
>>>> The only time parking seems to be difficult is at times N.S.A. is
>>>> not
> in
>>>> session--farmers market & after 5:00 etc.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Error number two would be that I am not the owner of the
>>>> Lock
>>>> Shop. I am but the lowly cook & bottle washer, But thanks for the
>>>> promotion(aww and you pretend that ya don't like me)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Error number three. Faulty comparisons. "Third Street Mall"
>>>> parking lot is private property. Jackson st. is public. Co-Op
> customers
>>>> parked in front of my place of employment all the time, as was their
>>>> right. There are no signs advising customers of the shopping center
> not
>>>> too. The Co-Op was, all in all, a good neighbor and while parking
>>>> was
>>>> sometimes tight, we did O.K. I expect it will be the same with our
>>>> new
>>>> tennants.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With regard to your recomendations for my health and
>>>> personal
>>>> betterment, Thank you. I will consider the source and take them
>>>> under
>>>> advisement.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>> From: Joan Opyr
>>>>
>>>> To: Vision2020 Moscow
>>>>
>>>> Cc: Linda Pall ; Nancy Chaney ; Lois Blackburn ; John
>>>> Dickinson
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 7:03 PM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Business parking
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14 Dec 2005, at 05:56, g. crabtree wrote:
>>>>
>>>> With regard to my brief answer to the question of allowing
>>>> N.S.A. the right to have it's students and staff park downtown, I
> really
>>>> don't see how it could confuse you. It strikes me as massively
>>>> unfair
> to
>>>> single them out for some kind of burdensome parking restriction. All
>>>> businesses downtown us up parking to one degree or another.
> Restaurants,
>>>> coffee shops, and apartments all require parking. I suspect that
>>>> residents at the Moscow Hotel use up far more parking in the Jackson
> st.
>>>> lot than the school does and there is still plenty of left over
> spaces.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The reason NSA should be "singled out" in terms of
>>>> parking,
>>>> Mr. Crabtree, is because NSA is not a business. It is a college. Its
>>>> students don't park for an hour and then leave; they come and park
>>>> for
>>>> several hours. Some park in the Jackson lot all day. The businesses
>>>> dependent on the Jackson lot -- Bookpeople, Paradise Creek Bicycles,
>>>> Sweet Peas and Sage, the Wild Hare, and the various restaurants in
>>>> the
>>>> Central Business District need that parking for their customers. If
>>>> people can't find parking downtown, then people will stop shopping
>>>> downtown. They'll go instead to the mall.
>>>>
>>>> U of I students and employees pay for the privilege of
> parking
>>>> on campus. NSA students pay nothing to park in the Jackson Street
>>>> lot.
>>>> What's more, their parking is subsidized by the tax-paying
>>>> businesses
>>>> downtown. This is unfair; it's detrimental to downtown retail; and
> it's
>>>> a pain in the ass for both customers and shop-keepers. According to
> city
>>>> zoning ordinance, NSA should not be in the Central Business
>>>> District.
> If
>>>> the code is amended to allow them to stay, then something must be
>>>> done
>>>> to ensure that NSA's 150 to 200 students (their projected growth)
> don't
>>>> clog up parking for retail. Surely as the owner of the Lock Shop in
> the
>>>> Third Street Mall, you can appreciate having your business parking
>>>> hogged up by non-customers. For years, Food Co-Op customers parked
>>>> in
>>>> front of your shop despite the clear signs asking them not to. (I
> didn't
>>>> park in front of your shop; I respected your signs advising me not
> to. I
>>>> also didn't want to be towed.)
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I apologize for suggesting you might benefit from a
> dose
>>>> of Fletcher's Castoria. My friend, Dr. Seuss, has advised me that
>>>> re:
>>>> the Mack Trailer Park evictions, constipation is not your problem --
>>>> it's just that your heart is four sizes too small. The good doctor
>>>> suggests a diet of Roast Beast and a rousing chorus of "Bah-hoo
>>>> Doray"
>>>> with Cindy Lou Who.
>>>>
>>>> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>>>> www.joanopyr.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> _____________________________________________________
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>
>>>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯> ¯¯¯
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
>>> http://www.fsr.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> _____________________________________________________
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> http://www.fsr.com/
>
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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