[Vision2020] Just info

Wed Aug 31 13:33:55 PDT 2005

Pat, the reason you get two emails in response is that most of us hit "reply 
all" so that you, individually, and you, as part of Vision 2020, get the 
email.

keely

From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Just info
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:12:01 -0700

Speaking about delete buttons...It is not neccessary to send two emails out 
if you are resoponding to me! I cannot figure out why some of you do this. 
Do you expect me to save the personal one in some wonderful file with your 
name on it? One will do just fine.
Thanks
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sunil Ramalingam
   To: pkraut at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
   Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:42 AM
   Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Just info

   No, Pat, I don't want us to clean it up in a few years.  I think it's the 
height of arrogance to assume we have either the right or the power or the 
ability to do that.

   If you look at what I said (and I did make an incorrect assumption, and 
erred in claiming it was a Sunni area, when it's also Kurdish) I was 
pointing to where the Shiite-dominated majority is headed.  The Kurds (who 
are also primarily Sunni, but whose ethnic identity trumps the religious 
one) don't want to be subject to a Shiite state; they want to keep their 
autonomy.

   Instead of making incorrect assumptions about my thinking, why don't you 
explain why you think we are there?

   Sunil

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
     To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Just info
     Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:09:40 -0700

     It has taken us 200 years to get our nation this far and a few 
additional changes to our constitution. And we still don't have it right 
according to many people. So, are we asking these people to start where we 
are or are we going to have patience and give them some time to work it out. 
I am encouraged by where they are and how much they are working. I am 
disappointed in some things but the more I hear the more encouraged I am 
becoming. There are centuries long problems there and you want us to clean 
them up in a few years time...My goodness you have high expectations! This 
soldier is well aware of his surrendings and who he is talking to and with. 
You seem to be so sure that the soldiers know nothing about where they are 
and the problems that were there before. They are educated before they are 
sent, ya know!

     ----- Original Message -----
       From: Sunil Ramalingam
       To: pkraut at moscow.com ; vision2020 at moscow.com
       Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:22 PM
       Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Just info

       Pat,

       I'm not surprised that people in Kirkuk don't want strict Muslims in 
charge; they're Sunnis, not Shiites.  But the version of the constitution 
that is being pushed by the Shiites will give the mullahs far more control 
than they ever had under Hussein.  They're going to look more like Iran than 
anything else.

       I don't think that was our goal when we invaded, no matter what the 
pretext.

       Sunil

------------------------------------------------------------------------

         From:  "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
         To:  "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
         Subject:  [Vision2020] Just info
         Date:  Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:05:56 -0700
         >I had a fascinating talk with a soldier who is home from Iraq on 
Saturday
         >about how things really are in Iraq. I had heard a talk show host 
quote the
         >Brookings institute stats and found them to see how they correlate 
with the
         >soldier experience.
         >One of the things the soldier told me was that there are mud homes 
in Iraq
         >that look like they've been there 400 years and recently they have 
satillite
         >dishes on them. I found this good news. Not that they may just be 
watching
         >reruns of Dallas but that they may be watching the BBC, CNN, Fox 
or anything
         >other than Al Jezera(spelling?). I was informed that they are and 
that in
         >Kirkuk where he is working the people are very aware of why we are 
there and
         >have no desire for us to leave soon. But, the children and the 
teens are the
         >most encouraging part of his interworking with the people. The 
zealot
         >muslums are oppresive to everyone and the children and teens know 
it. They
         >want freedom and they know that the strict muslums don't offer it. 
I have
         >also heard this about children and teens in Iran from people who 
work there.
         >I don't know if any of you have had a chance to talk to soldiers 
or those
         >who work for NGO's that are actually working in the area but I 
have learned
         >a lot from them that you never see in the major news. But, blogs 
and other
         >sites have the truth.
         >As an example: how many of you know that the counter rally in 
Crawford was
         >attended by many parents of dead soldiers. Did anyone read in any 
news
         >report or see any photo of the father removing the cross that 
Sheehan and
         >Moveon.org have put up in Crawford?
         >I bet not!
         >
         >
         >
         >
         >
         >I can't be a Republican...I have always been gainfully employed!
         >
         >_____________________________________________________
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         >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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         >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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     >_____________________________________________________
     > List services made available by First Step Internet,
     > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
     > http://www.fsr.net
     > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   _____________________________________________________
    List services made available by First Step Internet,
    serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
                  http://www.fsr.net
             mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
   ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

_____________________________________________________
  List services made available by First Step Internet,
  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
                http://www.fsr.net
           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

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