[Vision2020] In Defense of Phil Nisbet

[debismith at moscow.com]

In my experience, it's best not to try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes 
your time and annoys the pig. Isn't this suggestion in the same category?

Debi Robinson-Smith

> Perhaps Nick can educate Donovan about what a knowledge claim is.
> 
> W.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Donovan Arnold" <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier at uidaho.edu>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 7:06 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] In Defense of Phil Nisbet
> 
> 
> > Visionaries,
> >
> > Phil Nisbet has been offended by Ralph. I think to
> > tell Phil he is wrong about his feelings and Ralph is
> > right about Phil's feelings is a fruitless endeavor.
> >
> > Usually, when we offend someone we say, sorry, I did
> > not mean to offend you. Ralph did not do that, he
> > attempted to justify his offensive behavior by saying
> > he knows more about the Bible than Phil.
> >
> > I can tell you now that although Ralph knows 1000
> > times more than I do about the Bible, he has already
> > said some things I know to be untrue about Catholics.
> > So the fact that he may have made mistakes about the
> > Jewish faith would not be surprising.
> >
> > A couple of comments on Dr. Geir's statements.
> >
> > 1) "Ralph has devoted much of his retirement to the
> > study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
> > perspective."
> >
> > Studying the Bible does not equate to knowing the
> > Jewish faith, or any faith for that matter.
> >
> > 2)"He has proved time and time again that Christians
> > who claim to know the Bible usually don't know what
> > they are talking about."
> >
> > Phil Nisbet is not a Christian. Christians usually
> > study only a small portions of the Bible. So this is
> > not surprising. If you are Catholic, like me, you are
> > spoon fed portions the Bible.
> >
> >
> > 3) "If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> > talking scholarship"
> >
> > Why is the burden on Phil? Should Ralph not be the one
> > that realizes we are not talking scholarship?
> >
> >
> > Faith cannot be studied from a factual observational
> > scientific viewpoint. It is entirely an internal
> > relationship with God. You cannot put it in a book or
> > debate it. Studying the Bible like the Rosetta Stone,
> > in my opinion, is the wrong way of going about it.
> >
> > Donovan J Arnold
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings:
> >
> > I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
> > harsh on my good
> > friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has devoted much of his
> > retirement to the
> > study of the Bible from a healthy skeptical
> > perspective.  He has proved
> > time and time again that Christians who claim to know
> > the Bible usually
> > don't know what they are talking about.
> >
> > Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
> > conferences who are
> > completely cool with the phrase "Hebrew Bible" and
> > know how to distinguish a
> > scholarly approach from a believer's approach.
> >
> > I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
> > "Hebrew and Buddhist
> > Concepts of Self," which is currently out for blind
> > review.  It
> > demonstrates that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand
> > (not as they are
> > interpeted by the various schools of Judaism) do not
> > support that idea of a
> > substantial or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage
> > from Ecclesiastes
> > and is unaware of the fact that what returns to God is
> > not an immortal
> > soul, but the divine breath that animates all life,
> > including animal
> > life. We and the animals return to the dust or a
> > shadowy existence in
> > Sheol.
> >
> > I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because it
> > generally does
> > not take scripture literally, and it also takes
> > traditions very
> > seriously.
> >
> > If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> > talking scholarship
> > and he is talking about the Jewish tradition, this
> > blow up could have
> > been avoided.
> >
> > Nick Gier
> >
> > --- Nicholas Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Greetings:
> >>
> >> I believed that Phil Nisbet has been unnecessarily
> >> harsh on my good friend Ralph Nielsen.  Ralph has
> >> devoted much of his retirement to the study of the
> >> Bible from a healthy skeptical perspective.  He has
> >> proved time and time again that Christians who claim
> >> to know the Bible usually don't know what they are
> >> talking about.
> >>
> >> Ralph and I have met devout Jews at scholarly
> >> conferences who are completely cool with the phrase
> >> "Hebrew Bible" and know how to distinguish a
> >> scholarly approach from a believer's approach.
> >>
> >> I suppose that Phil would not at all like my paper
> >> "Hebrew and Buddhist Concepts of Self," which is
> >> currently out for blind review.  It demonstrates
> >> that the Hebrew scriptures as they stand (not as
> >> they are interpeted by the various schools of
> >> Judaism) do not support that idea of a substantial
> >> or immortal soul.  Phil quotes a passage from
> >> Ecclesiastes and is unaware of the fact that what
> >> returns to God is not an immortal soul, but the
> >> divine breath that animates all life, including
> >> animal life. We and the animals return to the dust
> >> or a shadowy existence in Sheol.
> >>
> >> I appreciate the Jewish religious very much because
> >> it generally does not take scripture literally, and
> >> it also takes traditions very seriously.
> >>
> >> If Phil could just stop and realize that Ralph is
> >> talking scholarship and he is talking about the
> >> Jewish tradition, this blow up could have been
> >> avoided.
> >>
> >> Nick Gier
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> 
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