[Vision2020] 17,000 average!
Mike Weatherford
fueledbyramen at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 11 16:07:11 PST 2004
Tom,
Just out of curiosity, how many is "several"? Is it in the neighborhood of
8,000? IF Moscow had a winning football team, then yes, perhaps we would
have sufficient draw to come close to qualifying for AI status. But we
don't. Why not settle down in the lower conference, slowly train up a good
team, and THEN shoot for AI status? Meanwhile, we can ease off the athletics
budget a little and start properly funding the rest of the university. Maybe
if the academic programs start to get the money they need, we might a bit
better enrollment, and a little more money for /everyone/. There's more to
attracting (AND retaining) students than having a medeocre football team in
a presitgeous league.
Cheers,
-Mike
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>,
><cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us>, <fueledbyramen at hotmail.com>,
><vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
>Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 06:02:53 -0800
>
>Oh contraire, Mr. Arnold -
>
>Being a listserve subscriber to Vandal Mail I am aware of several alums
>that
>not only come to Moscow from Coeur d'Alene for Vandal football, but also
>Boise, Portland, and Seattle. When Idaho had a winning football program,
>people traveled even further distances than that.
>
>Tom "49er" Hansen
>UI '96
>
>We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some
>are
>dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
>exist very nicely in the same box.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanarnold at hotmail.com]
>Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 4:00 AM
>To: cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us; thansen at moscow.com;
>fueledbyramen at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
>
>Chris,
>
>If success of the program relies on "attracting fans from Spokane, Pullman,
>Coeur d'Alene, Hayden, Boise and beyond", as you state, the it will NOT be
>successful.
>
>Having lived in Spokane, Coeur d' Alene, and Hayden, you aint' got nothing
>to make them drive four hours (two hours down here two hours back). You
>clearly have NO CLUE as to who is living in those areas.
>
>Spokane, first off, already has numerous other college programs, the Zags
>for one. Most the people I knew in Spokane have never even heard of the
>Vandals, little lone would they spend a minimum of 6 hours (four hours in
>the car) to watch a football game. Spokane already has college athletics
>programs, good ones, and they do not consider Moscow local.
>
>Hayden and CDA are mostly new people. They mostly came here from Southern
>California. They are not connected to the area. They probably couldn't find
>Moscow on a map. Nor are they Vandal alumni.
>
>Boise, well, they have the Broncos, they are not going to drive 6-8 hours
>one way to watch the Vandals--unless it is watch the Broncos wipe the
>Vandals butts.
>
>You are right, however, that the market can support two major athletic
>programs, and they do, WSU Cougars and the Gonzaga Bulldogs. There is NO
>evidence that people would be willing to change loyalties or all of a
>sudden
>
>take an interest in another football team.
>
>Why don't you try an experiment before selling the financial future of UI
>down the road. Offer free seats, beer, and pizza to any person from CDA,
>Spokane, or Hayden that shows up for a local game. If you cannot get 1000
>to
>
>show up, would it not be logical to conclude that you cannot get 5,000 to
>show if you charge for admittance? It is a fair test. However, I know
>supporters of moving to AI would never do it, because it would prove my
>point that people outside the palouse are not interested. But I don't think
>those pushing for AI are really interested in the program succeeding, they
>are out to make a name for themselves, and unfortunately at the expensive
>of
>
>a quality education for many UI students.
>
>Take Care,
>
>Donovan J Arnold
>
> >From: Chris Storhok <cstorhok at co.fairbanks.ak.us>
> >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <donovanarnold at hotmail.com>, thansen at moscow.com,
> >fueledbyramen at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
> >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:06:46 -0900
> >
> >Donovan,
> >Success for the program relies on attracting fans from Spokane, Pullman,
> >, Coeur d'AleneHayden, Boise, and beyond. Anyone familiar with the
>program
> >is well aware of that as are the hotels, restaurants, gift shops and so
> >forth. The Cougars have the same challenge, how to attract fans from
> >Spokane. Market analyses for both schools include a 100 mile radius, the
> >number of people in that area is over 500,000 and is large enough by
> >anyone's standard to support 2 major college programs.
> >Chris Storhok
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
> >Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 5:49 PM
> >To: thansen at moscow.com; fueledbyramen at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
> >
> >
> >Tom and Mike,
> >
> >You guys are both being silly. Moscow, including students, only amounts
>to
> >about 22,000 people combined. If you count the entire county, you might
>get
> >to about 33,000. Yes, you can get people from the surrounding area to
>come
> >in also, like Lewiston and Benewah. But let us face facts. Even if you
>got
> >every student, 25% of the people even out in Bovill, filled every hotel
> >room
> >
> >full of Vandal fans, and even got a few people from Lewiston and abroad
>to
> >come to EVERY game, you still would be only meeting the bare bone minimum
> >to
> >
> >be AI.
> >
> >Do you really think that we could get 50% of Latah to come to every
> >football
> >
> >game? I don't think so. Besides, where would they park and sit, we don't
> >have enough restrooms, seats, and parking to legally handle that number.
> >
> >Take Care,
> >
> >Donovan J Arnold
> >
> > >From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
> > >To: "'Mike Weatherford'" <fueledbyramen at hotmail.com>,
> > ><vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
> > >Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 05:59:59 -0800
> > >
> > >Mike -
> > >
> > >Attendance at football games is not restricted to local citizens, or
> > >haven't
> > >you checked local hotels during football weekends?
> > >
> > >Tom Hansen
> > >UI '96
> > >
> > >We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty,
>some
> > >are
> > >dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they
>all
> > >exist very nicely in the same box.
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> >[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> > >On Behalf Of Mike Weatherford
> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:13 AM
> > >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
> > >
> > >Hmmph.
> > >
> > > I did a (very small amount of) research, to put that number in
> > >perspective. I thought that 17,000 seemed a little high, based on the
> > >population and university enrollment, so I checked around a bit. We
>have
> >an
> > >enrollment of around 11,444(based on the UI's own online factbook,) and
> > >Moscow's population is probably around 23,500 (which is higher than the
> > >actual figures I found, which sit at around 21-22,000, but are a few
> >years
> > >old.) That puts the total pool of potential in-town attendees at
> >something
> > >like 34,944. So, to meet the /average/ requirement of 17,000, we'd have
> >to
> > >have something like 48.6% of the total potential attendees show up. I
> >mean,
> > >the turnout we had, based on my numbers is pretty close to 25.8%, using
> >my
> > >(potentially accurate) system.
> > >
> > > Of course, I'm just a relatively uninformed student, crunching
>numbers
> > >in
> > >my head and using the calculator built in to my computer. The fact that
> > >something is wrong here and that the team doesn't belong in IA should
>be
> > >painfully obvious to anyone who actually knows what's going on, right?
> > >Maybe
> > >
> > >they know something I don't? Or maybe the UI Football program is simply
> > >beating its head against a wall, attempting to keep competing with its
> > >"rival" university dispite very real tactical and financial
> >considerations
> > >that imply that doing so is a terrible idea for everyone involved.
>Yeah,
> > >maybe that's it.
> > >
> > > One other thing, while I'm already complaining: I've long been a fan
> >of
> > >the idea that athletes should have performance based scholarships. My
>pal
> > >Griff suggested this to me, and it's a great idea. I mean, I lose my
> > >academic scholarships if I slip below a 3.2 gpa. I move that if a team
> >dips
> > >below a similar athletic performance rating, they lose their sports
> > >scholarships. If profound financial anxiety helps academic performance
> >(as
> > >it has arguably helped mine), it should have a similar effect on
>athletic
> > >performance. I also think that if the athletics department wants to
> >replace
> > >perfectly serviceable equipment with shiny new, but unnecessary, stuff,
> > >then
> > >
> > >it should raise the money itself. Want another glass-enclosed weight
> >room?
> > >Have a bake sale. Wash cars. Sell your mopeds. It'll build character.
> >Then
> > >they'll appreciate the new gear that much more. That's what my dad
>always
> > >told me, and he was right often enough that I trust him.
> > >
> > >Part of my problem could be that it's late, or that I'm bitter. Both
> >valid
> > >possibilities. But I came from a poor high school that constantly
>poured
> > >money (money that it didn't have) into it's football team. I'd hoped
>that
>
> >I
> > >would escape that trend when I came to college.
> > >
> > >A good morning to you all.
> > >-Mike
> > >
> > > >From: Nicholas Gier <ngier at uidaho.edu>
> > > >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > >Subject: [Vision2020] 17,000 average!
> > > >Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:20:41 -0800
> > > >
> > > >Greetings from Blue State Capital,
> > > >
> > > >All the publicity about UI going to IA explicitly stated that we
>needed
> > >to
> > > >average 17,000 per game, and the 9,000 last Saturday at a homecmoing
> >game
> > > >simply shows that we do not have the fan or population base to be a
>IA
> > > >team.
> > > >
> > > >In response to an earlier post about the AFT call for a return to the
> >Big
> > > >Sky, I did indeed send our piece to Steve Peterson, who said that it
> >did
> > > >not contain any errors. Steve is a former A+ student of mine and
>also
> > >has
> > > >done economic analyses for the union, but I'm a little concerned
>about
> >a
> > > >social scientist now apparently going partisan about IA affiliation.
> > > >
> > > >If the UI thinks that it can make money with a IA football team, it
>is
> >an
> > > >absurd proposition. As we stated in our position paper, the average
> > > >deficit in IA programs after appropriated funds are substracted is
> > > >$237,000, and only about six programs actually make money. And at
>the
> >UI
> > > >there are all sorts of hidden costs: maintaining the Kibbie Dome,
>etc.
> > > >Even if they raise private money for a new stadium, the UI will still
> >be
> > > >stuck with maintenance costs, etc.
> > > >
> > > >If we have to stop this madness now.
> > > >
> > > >Go Big Sky Vandals!
> > > >
> > > >Nick Gier
> > > >
> > > >_____________________________________________________
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> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > > http://www.fsr.net
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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>and
> >more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>
>
>
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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