[Vision2020] Re: Musical and Body Intelligence
Robert Dickow
Robert Dickow" <dickow@uidaho.edu
Sat, 22 May 2004 04:26:32 -0700
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Well ok, if instrument playing is defined in this way as an application =
of physical coordination, I'll buy that. We horn players have always =
thought of ourselves as 'small muscle athletes' actually, because it =
often takes a lot of strength, endurance, and control. I see these kinds =
of things as a necessary condition before my musical 'intelligence' =
(what little there may be) can be realized in performance. In this sense =
the 'bodily' intelligence is a sort of separate activity, one that is =
needed in order to manifest the other 'musical' intelligence. In a way I =
don't see them as bound together as one thing.
I think your comments about music and personal response as being in part =
a bodily response is intriguing. I think there are others who may share =
this view and have developed the idea in the scholarly arena. Others, =
such as Leonard B. Meyer (In his book 'Emotion and Meaning in Music', =
for example) have quite a contrasting view of how the mind (not the =
body) processes musical information and responds to it.
I quite agree basically with your ideas about the nature of music, =
musical intelligence and musical response. Here are some additional =
notions that can maybe clarify the nature of it all.=20
You bring up Nancarrow. You note that people may respond to this kind of =
music in a physical sort of way too, in spite of the 'intellectual' or =
one might say 'process' nature of the music, a response which I would =
agree is certainly appropriate and possible. Indeed, one should note =
that the personal response to any piece of music is not necessarily "in" =
the music at all, in my view, but is very subjective in nature. It is a =
personal response, one that may be quite variable from person to person. =
Similarly with any communicable content in the music. (I recently played =
the 'Circus Maximus' from Ottorino Respighi's 'Roman Festivals' to my =
compostion students, who were all unfamiliar with the work. I asked them =
to describe what they thought the composer was trying to depict in =
musical terms. I did not tell the students the title of the work. None =
of the students' descriptions came even close to Respighi's 'program', =
which is best described as a scene of carnage and violence (lions =
devouring Christian martyrs. The music is almost unambiguous to my ear. =
But my students (perhaps unfamiliar with any supporting context or =
familiarity with the references, e.g. Gregorian chant tunes, etc.) had =
no response to the music, physically, or even emotionally-- to the =
degree intended by the composer.)=20
You note too the violent ('physical') response to Stravinsky's Rite of =
Spring. While not disagreeing at all with your thesis, I should point =
out that the riot at the premiere was likely brought on as much by the =
provocative (sexual) choreography and risqu=E9 costumes, and one or two =
rowdy audience members who started a ruckus that spread rapidly-- as by =
a response to the music. (Diagalev's dancers found the work to be almost =
'undanceable' in terms of rhythm, incidentally. I find this complaint a =
bit surprising.) But then, Stravinsky was intending a strong emotional =
and physical response, I think, and not an intellectual or =
'mathematical' one... but he can't take full credit for the unfortunate =
melee at the hall near the Champs Elys=E9es from which he had to =
hurriedly exit through an open window!
Certainly music can evoke a physical response, and some music does so =
more than other music. But not all music seems to evoke a 'physical' or =
bodily response. Certainly not for me. But it is difficult to avoid =
wiggling a little when hearing a pop/dance tune such as 'Barbie Girl', =
and difficult to wiggle at all when listening to Ligeti's 'Lux Aeterna'. =
I think that generalizing that music by nature evokes or involves a =
bodily and musical intelligence may be too general. (And of course I =
understand your meaning of 'bodily' to go beyond the simple physical =
response that happens in the ear apparatus, etc.) I can easily conceive =
of musics that raise 'intelligence' to such a high level that the bodily =
level is reduced pretty much to zero, just as some music (such as =
'Barbie Girl' reduce the intelligence level to zero, or close to it, and =
edify the physical in every way, including the sexual references in the =
lyrics.) does quite the reverse. A person's response to the music is =
something else though.
Some of my own research in recent years has involved 'algorithmic' =
composition. In this work I use computer programming languages (the =
Hierarchic Music Specification Language is my favorite) to construct =
computed structures involving fractal number sequences and other devices =
and mathematical calculations. The music is as abstract and coldly =
calculated as I can make it, removing my 'will' from the choice of =
rhythms and pitches generated at any given instant. At the same time, my =
entire goal is to create computer music that sounds 'composed' by a =
human... intentional. I want the listener to respond to it both =
intellectually as well as physically. I am interested in the 'gestalt' =
and not the details. This is a curious paradox perhaps, but I find it =
intriguing, and it also puts much of the focus back on the role and =
importance of the interpreter, not the musical object.
There is more to the aesthetic response than meets the eye (or ear). =
Culture is very much crucial to the mix. A friend of mine spent a couple =
of years in Somalia while in the Peace Corps in the 60s. There, he made =
friends with some Somalis, who in those days were especially insulated =
from outside media and other 'foreign' influences. One day my friend was =
chatting with his Somali friend while playing a tape of Beethoven's =
'Eroica' symphony in the background. When my friend turned the topic to =
the music, he was surprised to learn the stunned response of his Somali =
friend. The Somali explained that he found the idea of a composer =
writing a piece on paper 150 years ago, played by 70 musicians not only =
totally bewildering and bizarre, but he also admitted that the sounds he =
heard coming from the tape were of a sort that he did not even recognize =
as classifiable as MUSIC at all. Art music had no meaning in his =
experience, music serving quite strictly a ritual function in his =
society. Beethoven did not sound like.... music.
Recent research has suggested that the processing of musical information =
is handled by areas of the brain dedicated to verbal processing, =
suggesting that musical structures associated with musical 'meaning' =
(whatever that is) may have some relation to syntactic/linguistic =
structures and mental processing. This might even be further evidence of =
Bernstein's premise of linguistics and music in his famous Six Harvard =
Lectures, inspired largely by Chomsky's theories on Transformational =
Grammar. This adds stimulating avenues for additional aspects of musical =
aesthetic responses.
This goes way off the track from the 'multiple intelligences' thread, =
but it was fun chatting anyway.
Bob Dickow
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tbertruss@aol.com=20
Bob, Tami:
Well, let's consider this carefully.
Bob, I expect you are a rather competent French Horn player, if that =
reference to the French Horn referred to your chosen instrument. It =
does not matter, as long as you play a musical instrument rather well. =
And does this not involve sophisticated hand to eye coordination, if =
reading musical notes on a page, along with superb fine motor control in =
your hands? And is not body posture critical for nearly all musicians =
to achieve their best performance? I have put in thousands of hours of =
musical instrument playing, and from my experience, body posture, =
tension, relaxation and balance are critical to playing well. So are we =
not back to a form of body intelligence essentially linked to musical =
intelligence? We could assert, in a manner of speaking, that you dance =
with your fingers coordinated with your breath and mouth on your =
instrument. Very difficult!
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Well ok, =
if instrument=20
playing is defined in this way as an application of =
physical=20
coordination, I'll buy that. We horn players have always thought of =
ourselves as=20
'small muscle athletes' actually, because it often takes a lot of =
strength,=20
endurance, and control. I see these kinds of things as a necessary =
condition=20
before my musical 'intelligence' (what little there may be) can be =
realized in=20
performance. In this sense the 'bodily' intelligence is a sort of =
separate=20
activity, one that is needed in order to manifest the other 'musical'=20
intelligence. In a way I don't see them as bound together as one=20
thing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I think your comments =
about music and=20
personal response as being in part a bodily response is intriguing. I =
think=20
there are others who may share this view and have developed the idea in =
the=20
scholarly arena. Others, such as Leonard B. Meyer (In his =
book 'Emotion and=20
Meaning in Music', for example) have quite a contrasting view of how the =
mind=20
(not the body) processes musical information and responds to =
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I quite agree basically =
with your=20
ideas about the nature of music, musical intelligence and musical =
response. Here=20
are some additional notions that can maybe clarify the nature of it =
all. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>You bring up Nancarrow. =
You note that=20
people may respond to this kind of music in a physical sort of way too, =
in spite=20
of the 'intellectual' or one might say 'process' nature of the music, a =
response=20
which I would agree is certainly appropriate and possible. Indeed, one =
should=20
note that the personal response to any piece of music is not necessarily =
"in"=20
the music at all, in my view, but is very subjective in nature. It is a =
personal=20
response, one that may be quite variable from person to person. =
Similarly with=20
any communicable content in the music. (I recently played the 'Circus =
Maximus'=20
from Ottorino Respighi's 'Roman Festivals' to my compostion students, =
who were=20
all unfamiliar with the work. I asked them to describe what they thought =
the=20
composer was trying to depict in musical terms. I did not tell the =
students the=20
title of the work. None of the students' descriptions came even =
close to=20
Respighi's 'program', which is best described as a scene of carnage and =
violence=20
(lions devouring Christian martyrs. The music is almost unambiguous to =
my ear.=20
But my students (perhaps unfamiliar with any supporting context or =
familiarity=20
with the references, e.g. Gregorian chant tunes, etc.) had no response =
to the=20
music, physically, or even emotionally-- to the degree intended by the=20
composer.) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>You note too the violent ('physical') response to Stravinsky's Rite =
of=20
Spring. While not disagreeing at all with your thesis, I should point =
out that=20
the riot at the premiere was likely brought on as much by the=20
provocative (sexual) choreography and risqu=E9 costumes, and one or =
two rowdy=20
audience members who started a ruckus that spread rapidly-- as by a =
response to=20
the music. (Diagalev's dancers found the work to be almost =
'undanceable' in=20
terms of rhythm, incidentally. I find this complaint a bit =
surprising.) But=20
then, Stravinsky was intending a strong emotional and physical response, =
I=20
think, and not an intellectual or 'mathematical' one... but he can't =
take full=20
credit for the unfortunate melee at the hall near the Champs =
Elys=E9es from=20
which he had to hurriedly exit through an open window!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Certainly music can =
evoke a physical=20
response, and some music does so more than other music. But not all =
music seems=20
to evoke a 'physical' or bodily response. Certainly not for me. But it =
is=20
difficult to avoid wiggling a little when hearing a pop/dance tune such =
as=20
'Barbie Girl', and difficult to wiggle at all when listening to Ligeti's =
'Lux=20
Aeterna'. I think that generalizing that music by nature evokes or =
involves a=20
bodily and musical intelligence may be too general. (And of course I =
understand=20
your meaning of 'bodily' to go beyond the simple physical response that =
happens=20
in the ear apparatus, etc.) I can easily conceive of musics that raise=20
'intelligence' to such a high level that the bodily level is reduced =
pretty much=20
to zero, just as some music (such as 'Barbie Girl' reduce the =
intelligence level=20
to zero, or close to it, and edify the physical in every way, including =
the=20
sexual references in the lyrics.) does quite the reverse. A person's =
response to=20
the music is something else though.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Some of my own research =
in recent=20
years has involved 'algorithmic' composition. In this work I use =
computer=20
programming languages (the Hierarchic Music Specification Language is my =
favorite) to construct computed structures involving fractal number =
sequences=20
and other devices and mathematical calculations. The music is as =
abstract and=20
coldly calculated as I can make it, removing my 'will' from the choice =
of=20
rhythms and pitches generated at any given instant. At the same time, my =
entire=20
goal is to create computer music that sounds 'composed' by a human...=20
intentional. I want the listener to respond to it both intellectually as =
well as=20
physically. I am interested in the 'gestalt' and not the details. This =
is a=20
curious paradox perhaps, but I find it intriguing, and it also puts much =
of the=20
focus back on the role and importance of the interpreter, not the =
musical=20
object.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>There is more to the =
aesthetic=20
response than meets the eye (or ear). Culture is very much crucial to =
the mix. A=20
friend of mine spent a couple of years in Somalia while in the Peace =
Corps in=20
the 60s. There, he made friends with some Somalis, who in those days =
were=20
especially insulated from outside media and other 'foreign' influences. =
One day=20
my friend was chatting with his Somali friend while playing a tape of=20
Beethoven's 'Eroica' symphony in the background. When my friend =
turned the=20
topic to the music, he was surprised to learn the stunned response of =
his Somali=20
friend. The Somali explained that he found the idea of a composer =
writing a=20
piece on paper 150 years ago, played by 70 musicians not only totally=20
bewildering and bizarre, but he also admitted that the sounds he heard =
coming=20
from the tape were of a sort that he did not even recognize as =
classifiable as=20
MUSIC at all. Art music had no meaning in his experience, music serving=20
quite strictly a ritual function in his society. Beethoven did not =
sound=20
like.... music.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Recent research has =
suggested that=20
the processing of musical information is handled by areas of the brain =
dedicated=20
to verbal processing, suggesting that musical structures associated with =
musical=20
'meaning' (whatever that is) may have some relation to =
syntactic/linguistic=20
structures and mental processing. This might even be further evidence of =
Bernstein's premise of linguistics and music in his famous Six Harvard =
Lectures,=20
inspired largely by Chomsky's theories on Transformational =
Grammar.=20
This adds stimulating avenues for additional aspects of =
musical=20
aesthetic responses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>This goes way off the =
track from the=20
'multiple intelligences' thread, but it was fun chatting =
anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Bob Dickow</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DTbertruss@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Tbertruss@aol.com">Tbertruss@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B></B> </DIV><FONT=20
face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 face=3DArial size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"=20
PTSIZE=3D"10"><STRONG><FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e4e4e4"></FONT></STRONG><BR>Bob, =
Tami:<BR><BR>Well,=20
let's consider this carefully.<BR><BR>Bob, I expect you are a rather =
competent=20
French Horn player, if that reference to the French Horn referred to =
your=20
chosen instrument. It does not matter, as long as you play a =
musical=20
instrument rather well. And does this not involve sophisticated =
hand to=20
eye coordination, if reading musical notes on a page, along with =
superb fine=20
motor control in your hands? And is not body posture critical =
for nearly=20
all musicians to achieve their best performance? I have put in =
thousands=20
of hours of musical instrument playing, and from my experience, body =
posture,=20
tension, relaxation and balance are critical to playing well. So =
are we=20
not back to a form of body intelligence essentially linked to musical=20
intelligence? We could assert, in a manner of speaking, that you =
dance=20
with your fingers coordinated with your breath and mouth on your=20
instrument. Very =
difficult!<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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