[Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wilson on NSA Accreditation
Jeremy Downey
dunadhaigh@hotmail.com
Sat, 15 May 2004 00:52:42 -0700
<html><div style='background-color:'><P><FONT face="Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>"On the same line: Just because NSA is an alleged Christian college does not mean the students there are any less sexually active than others of their age group. (It may mean they are much more clever at their covert operations. Maybe they should consider a CIA career upon graduation!)"</FONT><BR><BR></P>Not only are a number of NSA students frequently sexually active (sometimes with other students), but this situation is known of and actually encouraged by the faculty.<BR><BR>
<DIV>Jeremy Downey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ad ignem tractus, ab igne consumptus, ex igne renatus.</DIV>>From: "Art Deco aka W. Fox" <deco@moscow.com> >To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wilson on NSA Accreditation >Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:43:09 -0700 > >Eric, et al, > >Let's not confuse input quality with process quality and output quality. > >Assuming for the sake of argument that NSA gets high quality young students, it >doesn't follow that they get a quality education at NSA or given their >potential, they are high quality graduates. > >Even if you put the highest quality ingredients into making a beer, it does not >mean that you won't get a skunky mess out. Many a home brewer can tell you >that. If the brewing process and brewing equipment is of poor quality and >design, the end output, no matter how good the input, will suck. > >How is the quality of an educational process judged? Here's som!
e obvious >factors: > >1. The academic achievements of the faculty: Degrees earned from known >schools and schools of known good quality; amount and significance of research >published in quality, refereed mainline journals published by the associations >of members of specific disciplines (does not include vanity presses). > >2. Recognition by generally accepted university wide accreditation >organizations; recognition of various program areas by specific subject area >accreditation organizations. > >3. Openness of the institution and its entire staff to divergent opinions >based on universal peer reviewed research, evidence, and participation in >important conferences, seminars, etc. hosting leaders and innovators in specific >academic areas. > >etc. > >I would not fault any NSA student for not working very hard. Some of the NSA >staff appear to work hard. However, the staff by the most common academic >measure!
s is most charitably described as substandard. Therefore, no matter ho
w >hard both the students and the staff work, the end product will be substandard. > >I wonder how more accomplished the bright young graduates of NSA would be had >they went to a real college. I wonder how much better off the world would be if >they had also. > >On the same line: Just because NSA is an alleged Christian college does not >mean the students there are any less sexually active than others of their age >group. (It may mean they are much more clever at their covert operations. >Maybe they should consider a CIA career upon graduation!) > >Summary: Quality in does not mean quality out. A substandard process will >produce a substandard output regardless of the quality of the input. > >Wayne > >Art Deco (Wayne Fox) >deco@moscow.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eric Engerbretson > To: vision2020@moscow.com > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:10 PM > Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wils!
on on NSA Accreditation > > > Some of you folks are cracking me up with the niggling about NSA's >accreditation. I'm completely out of the loop on > the discussion/debate, but if the argument for having proper accreditation is >so that students won't be fed a sub-standard education by a bogus school-- the >argument is pretty laughable when NSA is the subject. Look at the info below and >tell me these kids are getting a poor education. :¬) > > If you've got so much time on your hands that you have to question the >accreditation of schools, go attack a school that has had perfect accreditation >for decades but puts out mediocre test-takers and charges a huge tuition to do >it. > > Sorry-- just a little burr under my saddle. I'm better now. > > EE > > > New Saint Andrews students rank among the nation's > > very best on the ACT and SAT standardized test scores > > The ACT/Collegenet database >(http://ww!
w.act.org/college_search/fset_col_search.html) identifies U.S. >col
leges and universities by their average test scores, GPAs, gender, >race/ethnicity, etc. > > The Highest Mean ACT Scores > > The ACT/Collegenet database shows that among institutions with unlimited >undergraduate enrollment (NSA had 122 students at the time of the report) on the >highest mean ACT score New Saint Andrews College students are 11th nationally, >fifth west of the Mississippi, fourth in the Pacific/Mountain states, and first >in both the Northern Mountain states region and Idaho. If you include Idaho with >colleges east of the Mississippi River, NSA students are seventh among schools >with unlimited enrollment. > > Comparing institutions with smaller undergraduate enrollments (under 4,000), >the ACT/Collegenet database shows that on the highest mean ACT score New Saint >Andrews College students are 7th nationally, fourth west of the Mississippi, >third in the Pacific/Mountain states, and again first in both the Nort!
hern >Mountain states region and Idaho. If you include Idaho with colleges east of the >Mississippi River, NSA students are fourth among those with under 4,000 >undergraduates. > > The Highest Mean SAT Scores > > The ACT/Collegenet database shows that among institutions with unlimited >undergraduate enrollment on the highest mean SAT scores New Saint Andrews >College students are 88th nationally, 25th west of the Mississippi, 18th in the >Pacific/Mountain states, and first in both the Northern Mountain states region >and Idaho. If you include Idaho with colleges east of the Mississippi River, NSA >students are 63rd among those with unlimited enrollment. > > Comparing institutions with undergraduate enrollments under 4,000, the >ACT/Collegenet database shows that on the highest mean SAT score New Saint >Andrews College students are 65th nationally, 20th west of the Mississippi, 13th >in the Pacific/Mountain states, and again!
first in both the Northern Mountain >states region and Idaho. If y
ou include Idaho with schools east of the >Mississippi River, NSA students are 45th among those under 4,000 undergraduates. > > I. Nationally > > Comparing all 50 states, 3,564 institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) > NSA ACT: 11th SAT: 88th > > Comparing all 50 states, and 2,764 institutions (undergrad enrollment under >4,000) > NSA ACT: 7th SAT: 65th > > II. Western States > > Comparing 25 western states, 1,428 institutions (unlimited undergrad >enrollment) > NSA ACT:5th SAT: 25th > > Comparing 25 western states, 1,096 institutions (undergrad enrollment under >4,000) > NSA ACT: 4th SAT: 20th > > III. Pacific & Mountain/Plain States > > Comparing 15 states of the Pacific coast, Rockies and ND, SD, and WY, and 623 >institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) > NSA ACT: 4th SAT:18th > > Comparing 15 Pacific and Mountain states, 450 institutions (undergrad >enrollment under 4,00!
0) > NSA ACT: 3rd SAT: 13th > > IV. Northern Mountain/Plain States > > Comparing 5 states, ID, MT, ND, SD, and WY, and 94 institutions (unlimited >undergrad enrollment) > NSA ACT: 1st SAT: 1st > > V. Idaho > > Comparing 13 institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) > NSA ACT: 1st SAT: 1st > > VI. Idaho and Colleges East of the Mississippi R. > > Comparing 2,096 institutions in Idaho and east of the Mississippi (unlimited >undergrad enrollment) > NSA ACT: 7th SAT: 63rd > > Comparing ID and colleges east of the Mississippi, 1,676 institutions >(undergrad enrollment under 4,000) > NSA ACT: 4th SAT: 45th </div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2746??PS=47575">Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million!</a> </html>