[Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wilson on NSA Accreditation

Jeremy Downey dunadhaigh@hotmail.com
Sat, 15 May 2004 00:52:42 -0700


<html><div style='background-color:'><P><FONT face="Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif" size=2>"On the same line:&nbsp; Just because NSA is an alleged Christian college does not mean the students there are any less sexually active than others of their age group.&nbsp; (It may mean they are much more clever at their covert operations.&nbsp; Maybe they should consider a CIA career upon graduation!)"</FONT><BR><BR></P>Not only are a number of NSA students frequently sexually active (sometimes with other students), but this situation is known of and actually encouraged by the faculty.<BR><BR>
<DIV>Jeremy Downey</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Ad ignem tractus, ab igne consumptus, ex igne renatus.</DIV>&gt;From: "Art Deco aka W. Fox" &lt;deco@moscow.com&gt; &gt;To: "Vision 2020" &lt;vision2020@moscow.com&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wilson on NSA Accreditation &gt;Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:43:09 -0700 &gt; &gt;Eric, et al, &gt; &gt;Let's not confuse input quality with process quality and output quality. &gt; &gt;Assuming for the sake of argument that NSA gets high quality young students, it &gt;doesn't follow that they get a quality education at NSA or given their &gt;potential, they are high quality graduates. &gt; &gt;Even if you put the highest quality ingredients into making a beer, it does not &gt;mean that you won't get a skunky mess out. Many a home brewer can tell you &gt;that. If the brewing process and brewing equipment is of poor quality and &gt;design, the end output, no matter how good the input, will suck. &gt; &gt;How is the quality of an educational process judged? Here's som!
 e obvious &gt;factors: &gt; &gt;1. The academic achievements of the faculty: Degrees earned from known &gt;schools and schools of known good quality; amount and significance of research &gt;published in quality, refereed mainline journals published by the associations &gt;of members of specific disciplines (does not include vanity presses). &gt; &gt;2. Recognition by generally accepted university wide accreditation &gt;organizations; recognition of various program areas by specific subject area &gt;accreditation organizations. &gt; &gt;3. Openness of the institution and its entire staff to divergent opinions &gt;based on universal peer reviewed research, evidence, and participation in &gt;important conferences, seminars, etc. hosting leaders and innovators in specific &gt;academic areas. &gt; &gt;etc. &gt; &gt;I would not fault any NSA student for not working very hard. Some of the NSA &gt;staff appear to work hard. However, the staff by the most common academic &gt;measure!
 s is most charitably described as substandard. Therefore, no matter ho
w &gt;hard both the students and the staff work, the end product will be substandard. &gt; &gt;I wonder how more accomplished the bright young graduates of NSA would be had &gt;they went to a real college. I wonder how much better off the world would be if &gt;they had also. &gt; &gt;On the same line: Just because NSA is an alleged Christian college does not &gt;mean the students there are any less sexually active than others of their age &gt;group. (It may mean they are much more clever at their covert operations. &gt;Maybe they should consider a CIA career upon graduation!) &gt; &gt;Summary: Quality in does not mean quality out. A substandard process will &gt;produce a substandard output regardless of the quality of the input. &gt; &gt;Wayne &gt; &gt;Art Deco (Wayne Fox) &gt;deco@moscow.com &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message ----- &gt; From: Eric Engerbretson &gt; To: vision2020@moscow.com &gt; Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:10 PM &gt; Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Reply to Wils!
 on on NSA Accreditation &gt; &gt; &gt; Some of you folks are cracking me up with the niggling about NSA's &gt;accreditation. I'm completely out of the loop on &gt; the discussion/debate, but if the argument for having proper accreditation is &gt;so that students won't be fed a sub-standard education by a bogus school-- the &gt;argument is pretty laughable when NSA is the subject. Look at the info below and &gt;tell me these kids are getting a poor education. :¬) &gt; &gt; If you've got so much time on your hands that you have to question the &gt;accreditation of schools, go attack a school that has had perfect accreditation &gt;for decades but puts out mediocre test-takers and charges a huge tuition to do &gt;it. &gt; &gt; Sorry-- just a little burr under my saddle. I'm better now. &gt; &gt; EE &gt; &gt; &gt; New Saint Andrews students rank among the nation's &gt; &gt; very best on the ACT and SAT standardized test scores &gt; &gt; The ACT/Collegenet database &gt;(http://ww!
 w.act.org/college_search/fset_col_search.html) identifies U.S. &gt;col
leges and universities by their average test scores, GPAs, gender, &gt;race/ethnicity, etc. &gt; &gt; The Highest Mean ACT Scores &gt; &gt; The ACT/Collegenet database shows that among institutions with unlimited &gt;undergraduate enrollment (NSA had 122 students at the time of the report) on the &gt;highest mean ACT score New Saint Andrews College students are 11th nationally, &gt;fifth west of the Mississippi, fourth in the Pacific/Mountain states, and first &gt;in both the Northern Mountain states region and Idaho. If you include Idaho with &gt;colleges east of the Mississippi River, NSA students are seventh among schools &gt;with unlimited enrollment. &gt; &gt; Comparing institutions with smaller undergraduate enrollments (under 4,000), &gt;the ACT/Collegenet database shows that on the highest mean ACT score New Saint &gt;Andrews College students are 7th nationally, fourth west of the Mississippi, &gt;third in the Pacific/Mountain states, and again first in both the Nort!
 hern &gt;Mountain states region and Idaho. If you include Idaho with colleges east of the &gt;Mississippi River, NSA students are fourth among those with under 4,000 &gt;undergraduates. &gt; &gt; The Highest Mean SAT Scores &gt; &gt; The ACT/Collegenet database shows that among institutions with unlimited &gt;undergraduate enrollment on the highest mean SAT scores New Saint Andrews &gt;College students are 88th nationally, 25th west of the Mississippi, 18th in the &gt;Pacific/Mountain states, and first in both the Northern Mountain states region &gt;and Idaho. If you include Idaho with colleges east of the Mississippi River, NSA &gt;students are 63rd among those with unlimited enrollment. &gt; &gt; Comparing institutions with undergraduate enrollments under 4,000, the &gt;ACT/Collegenet database shows that on the highest mean SAT score New Saint &gt;Andrews College students are 65th nationally, 20th west of the Mississippi, 13th &gt;in the Pacific/Mountain states, and again!
  first in both the Northern Mountain &gt;states region and Idaho. If y
ou include Idaho with schools east of the &gt;Mississippi River, NSA students are 45th among those under 4,000 undergraduates. &gt; &gt; I. Nationally &gt; &gt; Comparing all 50 states, 3,564 institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT: 11th SAT: 88th &gt; &gt; Comparing all 50 states, and 2,764 institutions (undergrad enrollment under &gt;4,000) &gt; NSA ACT: 7th SAT: 65th &gt; &gt; II. Western States &gt; &gt; Comparing 25 western states, 1,428 institutions (unlimited undergrad &gt;enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT:5th SAT: 25th &gt; &gt; Comparing 25 western states, 1,096 institutions (undergrad enrollment under &gt;4,000) &gt; NSA ACT: 4th SAT: 20th &gt; &gt; III. Pacific &amp; Mountain/Plain States &gt; &gt; Comparing 15 states of the Pacific coast, Rockies and ND, SD, and WY, and 623 &gt;institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT: 4th SAT:18th &gt; &gt; Comparing 15 Pacific and Mountain states, 450 institutions (undergrad &gt;enrollment under 4,00!
 0) &gt; NSA ACT: 3rd SAT: 13th &gt; &gt; IV. Northern Mountain/Plain States &gt; &gt; Comparing 5 states, ID, MT, ND, SD, and WY, and 94 institutions (unlimited &gt;undergrad enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT: 1st SAT: 1st &gt; &gt; V. Idaho &gt; &gt; Comparing 13 institutions (unlimited undergrad enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT: 1st SAT: 1st &gt; &gt; VI. Idaho and Colleges East of the Mississippi R. &gt; &gt; Comparing 2,096 institutions in Idaho and east of the Mississippi (unlimited &gt;undergrad enrollment) &gt; NSA ACT: 7th SAT: 63rd &gt; &gt; Comparing ID and colleges east of the Mississippi, 1,676 institutions &gt;(undergrad enrollment under 4,000) &gt; NSA ACT: 4th SAT: 45th </div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2746??PS=47575">Best Restaurant Giveaway Ever! Vote for your favorites for a chance to win $1 million!</a> </html>