[Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Breaking News: Bush sending us ...
DonovArn@aol.com
DonovArn@aol.com
Wed, 3 Mar 2004 02:32:24 EST
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In a message dated 3/2/2004 9:12:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
matt@moscowland.com writes:
Wow, you do have a lot of time on your hands don't you.
I wish. Work 40+ hours a week like everyone else.
I never said that thier were no U.S. citizens at the Alamo. That does not
make it a U.S. Goverment sponsered "event".
Well, the people are the Government, and they sure as hell were not Mexicans.
Aaron Burr tryed to succed Texas from the Union with a flotila of rafts, he
had been the Vice President, that does not mean it was a goverment action.
I suggest you read "Burr" by Gore Vidal. Very good book, best selling. Tells
you all about his career and what he did. Did you know that Van Burean was his
bastard son?
Although I do believe thats where Haliburton got started. And actually thats
not the end of the story. The "white peolpe" jab was really not acurate now is
it. I am trying to remember what the native toung of Mexico is........oh
thats right Spanish.......no that can't be right. You nimrod Mexico was colonized
by Spain. Actually colonized is not acurate Conqured is a better term. Santa
Ana served the Queen of Spain so lets not get to far off base. After all we
dont want to get in to the Spanish Inquisition.
I will not get into this, but I am ROFLMAO. I won't even touch that.
I did notice that there were a lot English, Scotish, Irish, German, Welsh,
Dannish and even Texan U.S. Citizens on your list. I am not sure how that
works......... but anyway maybe those were the congressmen.
That is where they were born. Not many from Mexico City.
Now I am not trying to defend Bush by attacking Clinton nor am I saying you
are a Clintonite, but Slick Willie sent over $300,000,000,000.00 in aid to
Haiti and what did it get us.
What is it supposed to get us? You don't give to receive. Besides, I really
doubt you. Show me where in the US Budget that we gave any country 3 billion
cash.
Heck he even sent 20,000 U.S. troops to Haiti. And please do not talk about
the "balanced budget" we had during his administration either. You can not
borrow from the 2012 budget today and say we have a surplus. Well I guess you can
say it. The Democrats did.
Well, in that case, I guess the budget deficit is much larger than we
expected.
Again you get a gold Star. Custer was not a hero. I do feel Bigot is a little
harsh though. That sentiment was a product of the time.
The definition of bigot doesn't change over time. Yes, everyone is a bigot
then, as they are now. But even in comparison, he was far more bigoted than
people even at that time. Most Americans were not scowering the unsettled
countryside looking for little Indian children and pregnant women to slaughter while
the men were off hunting and fishing.
I do not excuse or support it, but it was wide spread and born out of fear
and misunderstaning.
I would more acuratly discribe him as an undisiplined, reckless,
selfimportant individual that benifited from the couragous actions of a few. He was in the
right place at the right time during the Civil war.
I will second that motion
Please remeber that I agreed with you that that period of our history was and
is deporable.
As most of our History up until about maybe 1970.
President Eisenhower did not pull us out because it was not worth fighting.
What are they teaching these days? Truman fired McCarther when he (against
orders) crossed the 38th with the misconception that we could drive the commies
all the way off the Korean Pen. Thats when China got involved and pushed us way
back. Once we had fought all the way back to the 38th an armisist was signed
and active warfar was halted. We are still in Korea and its still an active
"war zone". Na by the way more than 33,000 americans dies in that war aganst
aggression
36,516 to be exact. Four were from Moscow:
Dwight M Goss
Floyd D Crooks
Jay M Gano
Richard L Marshall
My Godfather was a Korean War hero. John Browsen, who is also a cousin, is
buried up in the Moscow Cemetery.
If he died, many wonderful people would have never been born. I do NOT think
that war was worth fighting.
103,284 is the number of wounded. We don't even have a clue the number that
were mentally ill and/or sick. If you ever feed the homeless in America's City
streets you will be shocked at how many of them are Vietnam and Korean War
soldiers. Still think War is worth it?
Now how many civilian lives were taken in North and South Korea? How much
money and resources were used that could have been to save lives rather than take
them?
"A quick history lesson. WWI was not fought over territorial disputs. When
the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assinated while visiting Sarajevo, the capital
of Bosnia. Once the Serbian goverment had arrested the responsible parties,
the Austro-Hungarian goverment demanded that they be turned over to stand trial
in Vienna. Nikola Pasic, the prime minister of Serbia, told the
Austro-Hungarian government that he was unable to hand over these three men as it "would be
a violation of Serbia's Constitution and criminal in law". Three days later
Austro-Hungarian declared war on Serbia. You see it was not over territory it
was over sovranty. You see the inhabitants of the area were tired of being ruled
by the Austro-Hungarians' and favored a union with Serbia. Now that seams
strange Bosnians and Serbs wanting a union between them. Look at them now........
Obviosly I left many things out (limmited space and time) but I remind you
that you did not feel WWI was a "moral war". Yet you cited WWII as a "moral
war", really its a little subjective. The morality of the situation depends on
what side you are on and your point of view."
I disagree with you. I think the assassination of Archduke Ferdinan was just
the straw that broke the camel's back. There were many other power disputes
going on at the time. If it was not that assassination, it would have been
something else.
"I know what to say about your paragraph on WWI and WWII I just dont
understand what you have been taught. Japan never tryed to take over the U.S. they
only wanted to be the dominate power in the Pacific."
Well, actually no. The Japanese believed they were a superior race and wanted
to take over the entire world. They attacked Pearl Harbor to disable American
Forces for two reasons. 1) They believed that US would eventually enter the
war on China's side. And 2) The US was blocking oil reserves which was
hindering their efforts. They lost because they misunderstood the importance of the
Aircraft Carrier and placed emphasis on the more than not, obsolete Battleship
and destroyer. Their war was planned by the old thinker of earlier times, not
people that understood changing technology.
"The only reason to attack Pearl was to make sure we could not do anything
about thier conquest in the western Pacific. Its quite clear that they never
had any intention to invade, attack, or control the U.S. mainland. No we did not
just "help out our ally Britan". We fought and won the war in Europe because
our primary interest as a nation were threatened, our national coinscience
dictated that we not allow Germany to control the European contanent. We kicked
Japans ass because the made us. (it goes deeper but I am tired)"
No actually they did attack the mainland US off the coast of California and
Oregon. They also launched balloons with timed bombings. The Axis powers had
planned total world domination.
"War is not about profit (not really anymore), that ended centuries ago. Well
decades anyway. War is evil, dont kid yourself."
So why do you back it?
"Only a very few wars were started by the good guys. Almoat always you will
find an evil dictator or al least a made scientist behind it all. One day we
will have peace on earth, but it will not come until its forced. Humans are
bound by human nature (go figure), we will only change when required and we will
only come together when an outside force pushes us together. It will probebly
take an alien invasion or at least mass encounter to make it happen. NO NO NO
I do not want to get into a debate about alien life is there or isnt there. I
am just saying it will take something like that to make it happen."
It depends on how define conflict. We can have conflict and be "together"
without killing each other off.
"After reading your confesion of when you were on the Student Senate, I
understand your position much better. Your still realing with the Marxist idealism
instilled in you by the socialist population of the higher education system.
Its not you fault. In all likleyhood it will fade as you get a real job and
live in the real word for a few years. You will come to understand."
Yes, they also taught me how to write, research, and think for myself.
Believe it or not, many of the people I went to school with here in IDAHO are
Republicans. I don't disagree that the people who occupy the greatest occupation,
teaching, and are the smartest, most well informed people on the planet think
like less like Conservatives and more like Liberals. In terms of getting a REAL
job, Bush let them all leave the country, remember.
"America is a great place. Its made greater every day by the ability of
people like us to carry on a healthy discusion of our differing points of view."
Yes, American is a much better place than many other places. And I agree that
we don't need to declare war on each other to communicate our different
viewpoints. Rights are great, let us expand them.
Respectfully,
Donovan J Arnold
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<DIV>In a message dated 3/2/2004 9:12:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, matt@mosc=
owland.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Wow, you do have a lot of time on your hands d=
on't you.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I wish. Work 40+ hours a week like everyone else.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>I never said that thier were no U.S. c=
itizens at the Alamo. That does not make it a U.S. Goverment sponsered "even=
t". </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Well, the people are the Government, and they sure as hell were not Mex=
icans.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Aaron Burr tryed to succed Texas from the Unio=
n with a flotila of rafts, he had been the Vice President, that does not mea=
n it was a goverment action. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I suggest you read "Burr" by Gore Vidal. Very good book, best selling.=20=
Tells you all about his career and what he did. Did you know that Van Burean=
was his bastard son?</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Although I do believe thats where Haliburton g=
ot started. And actually thats not the end of the story. The "white peolpe"=20=
jab was really not acurate now is it. I am trying to remember what the nativ=
e toung of Mexico is........oh thats right Spanish.......no that can't be ri=
ght. You nimrod Mexico was colonized by Spain. Actually colonized is not acu=
rate Conqured is a better term. Santa Ana served the Queen of Spain so lets=20=
not get to far off base. After all we dont want to get in to the Spanish Inq=
uisition.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I will not get into this, but I am ROFLMAO. I won't even touch that.</D=
IV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>I did notice that there were a lot Eng=
lish, Scotish, Irish, German, Welsh, Dannish and even Texan U.S. Citizens on=
your list. I am not sure how that works......... but anyway maybe those wer=
e the congressmen.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>That is where they were born. Not many from Mexico City.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>Now I am not trying to defend Bush by=20=
attacking Clinton nor am I saying you are a Clintonite, but Slick Willie sen=
t over $300,000,000,000.00 in aid to Haiti and what did it get us. </FONT></=
BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>What is it supposed to get us? You don't give to receive. Besides, I re=
ally doubt you. Show me where in the US Budget that we gave any country 3 bi=
llion cash. </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>Heck he even sent 20,000 U.S. troops to Haiti.=
And please do not talk about the "balanced budget" we had during his admini=
stration either. You can not borrow from the 2012 budget today and say we ha=
ve a surplus. Well I guess you can say it. The Democrats did. </FONT></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<DIV>Well, in that case, I guess the budget deficit is much larger than we e=
xpected.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>Again you get a gold Star. Custer was=20=
not a hero. I do feel Bigot is a little harsh though. That sentiment was a p=
roduct of the time.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>The definition of bigot doesn't change over time. Yes, everyone is a bi=
got then, as they are now. But even in comparison, he was far more bigoted t=
han people even at that time. Most Americans were not scowering the unsettle=
d countryside looking for little Indian children and pregnant women&nbs=
p;to slaughter while the men were off hunting and fishing.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>I do not excuse or support it, but it was wide=
spread and born out of fear and misunderstaning.<BR>I would more acuratly d=
iscribe him as an undisiplined, reckless, selfimportant individual that beni=
fited from the couragous actions of a few. He was in the right place at the=20=
right time during the Civil war.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>I will second that motion</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR>Please remeber that I agreed with you that=
that period of our history was and is deporable.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>As most of our History up until about maybe 1970.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>President Eisenhower did not pull us o=
ut because it was not worth fighting. What are they teaching these days? Tru=
man fired McCarther when he (against orders) crossed the 38th with the misco=
nception that we could drive the commies all the way off the Korean Pen. Tha=
ts when China got involved and pushed us way back. Once we had fought all th=
e way back to the 38th an armisist was signed and active warfar was halted.=20=
We are still in Korea and its still an active "war zone". Na by the way more=
than 33,000 americans dies in that war aganst aggression</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica> 36,516 to be exact. Four were from Mo=
scow:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica">Dwight M Goss </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN>Floyd D Crooks =
; </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN>Jay M Gano </SPAN><=
/P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN>Richard L Marshall&=
nbsp;</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times=
New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi=
-language: AR-SA"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE:=
10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times=
New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi=
-language: AR-SA"></SPAN><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FO=
NT-FAMILY: Helvetica; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-l=
anguage: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"></SPA=
N></B><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DHelvetica>My Godfather was a Korean Wa=
r hero. John Browsen, who is also a cousin, is buried up in the Moscow Cemet=
ery. </FONT></FONT></P><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DHelvetica></FONT></FO=
NT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DHelvetica>If he died, many wonderful pe=
ople would have never been born. I do NOT think that war was worth fighting.=
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DHelvetica></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT face=3DHelvetica>103,284 is the number of woun=
ded. We don't even have a clue the number that were mentally ill and/or sick=
. If you ever feed the homeless in America's City streets you will be s=
hocked at how many of them are Vietnam and Korean War soldiers. Still think=20=
War is worth it?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DHelvetica>Now how many civilian lives were taken in&n=
bsp;North and South Korea? How much money and resources were used that could=
have been to save lives rather than take them?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><BR>"A quick history lesson. WWI was not fought over=
territorial disputs. When the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assinated while=20=
visiting Sarajevo, the capital of Bosnia. Once the Serbian goverment had arr=
ested the responsible parties, the Austro-Hungarian goverment demanded that=20=
they be turned over to stand trial in Vienna. Nikola Pasic, the prime minist=
er of Serbia, told the Austro-Hungarian government that he was unable to han=
d over these three men as it "would be a violation of Serbia's Constitution=20=
and criminal in law". Three days later Austro-Hungarian declared war on Serb=
ia. You see it was not over territory it was over sovranty. You see the inha=
bitants of the area were tired of being ruled by the Austro-Hungarians' and=20=
favored a union with Serbia. Now that seams strange Bosnians and Serbs wanti=
ng a union between them. Look at them now........<BR>Obviosly I left many th=
ings out (limmited space and time) but I remind you that you did not feel WW=
I was a "moral war". Yet you cited WWII as a "moral war", really its a littl=
e subjective. The morality of the situation depends on what side you are on=20=
and your point of view."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>I disagree with you. I think the assassination of Ar=
chduke Ferdinan was just the straw that broke the camel's back. There w=
ere many other power disputes going on at the time. If it was not that assas=
sination, it would have been something else.<BR><BR>"I know what to say abou=
t your paragraph on WWI and WWII I just dont understand what you have been t=
aught. Japan never tryed to take over the U.S. they only wanted to be the do=
minate power in the Pacific."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, actually no. The Japanese believed they were a superior race and=20=
wanted to take over the entire world. They attacked Pearl Harbor to disable=20=
American Forces for two reasons. 1) They believed that US would eventually e=
nter the war on China's side. And 2) The US was blocking oil reserves which=20=
was hindering their efforts. They lost because they misunderstood the import=
ance of the Aircraft Carrier and placed emphasis on the more than not,=20=
obsolete Battleship and destroyer. Their war was planned by the old thinker=20=
of earlier times, not people that understood changing technology. </DIV=
>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial> "The only reason to attack Pearl was to make s=
ure we could not do anything about thier conquest in the western Pacific. It=
s quite clear that they never had any intention to invade, attack, or contro=
l the U.S. mainland. No we did not just "help out our ally Britan". We fough=
t and won the war in Europe because our primary interest as a nation were th=
reatened, our national coinscience dictated that we not allow Germany to con=
trol the European contanent. We kicked Japans ass because the made us. (it g=
oes deeper but I am tired)"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>No actually they did attack the mainland US off the=20=
coast of California and Oregon. They also launched balloons with timed bombi=
ngs. The Axis powers had planned total world domination. </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>"War is not about profit (not really anymore), that ended centu=
ries ago. Well decades anyway. War is evil, dont kid yourself."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So why do you back it?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> "Only a very few wars were started by the good guys. Almoat alway=
s you will find an evil dictator or al least a made scientist behind it all.=
One day we will have peace on earth, but it will not come until its forced.=
Humans are bound by human nature (go figure), we will only change when requ=
ired and we will only come together when an outside force pushes us together=
. It will probebly take an alien invasion or at least mass encounter to make=
it happen. NO NO NO I do not want to get into a debate about alien life is=20=
there or isnt there. I am just saying it will take something like that to ma=
ke it happen."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It depends on how define conflict. We can have conflict and be "to=
gether" without killing each other off. <BR><BR>"After reading yo=
ur confesion of when you were on the Student Senate, I understand your posit=
ion much better. Your still realing with the Marxist idealism instilled in y=
ou by the socialist population of the higher education system. Its not you f=
ault. In all likleyhood it will fade as you get a real job and live in the r=
eal word for a few years. You will come to understand."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, they also taught me how to write, research, and think for myself.=20=
Believe it or not, many of the people I went to school with here in IDAHO ar=
e Republicans. I don't disagree that the people who occupy the greatest occu=
pation, teaching, and are the smartest, most well informed people on th=
e planet think like less like Conservatives and more like Liberals=
. In terms of getting a REAL job, Bush let them all leave the country,=20=
remember.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>"America is a great place. Its made greater every day by the abilit=
y of people like us to carry on a healthy discusion of our differing points=20=
of view."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, American is a much better place than many other places. And I agre=
e that we don't need to declare war on each other to communicate our differe=
nt viewpoints. Rights are great, let us expand them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Respectfully,</DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J Arnold</FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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