[Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Breaking News: Bush sending us to war (aga...
DonovArn@aol.com
DonovArn@aol.com
Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:44:00 EST
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In a message dated 3/2/2004 7:06:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,
matt@moscowland.com writes:
The Alamo was an independant action of seperatists hoping to succed from the
Mexican terratorial control and had hopes that after they would be anexed by
the US. I assume that when yo say "we" you are not indicating you desire to
live in the past.
The super majority of people fighting in the Alamo were US Citizens: Here a
list of the ones that were US Citizens. Some were even members of Congress.
Mills DeForrest Andross, Vermont
Micajah Autry, N.C.
Peter James Bailey, Ky.
Isaac G. Baker, Ark.
William Charles M. Baker, Mo.
John J. Ballentine
Richard W. Ballantine, Scotland
John J. Baugh, Va
Joseph Bayliss, Tenn.
John Blair, Tenn.
Samuel C. Blair, Tenn.
William Blazeby, England
James Butler Bonham, S.C.
Daniel Bourne, England
James Bowie, Tenn
Jesse B. Bowman
George Brown, England
James Brown, Pa.
Robert Brown
James Buchanan, Ala.
Samuel E. Burns, Ireland
George D. Butler, Mo
Robert Campbell, Tenn.
John Cane, Pa.
William R. Carey, Va.
Charles Henry Clark, Mo
M.B. Clark
Daniel William Cloud, Ky.
Robert E. Cochran, N.J.
George Washington Cottle, Tenn.
Henry Courtman, Germany
Lemuel Crawford, S.C.
David Crockett, Tenn.
Robert Crossman, Mass.
David P. Cummings, Pa.
Robert Cunningham, N.Y.
Jacob C. Darst, Ky.
John Davis, Ky.
Freeman H. K. Day
Jerry C. Day, Mo.
Squire Daymon, Tenn.
William Dearduff, Tenn.
Stephen Dennison, England
Charles Despallier, La.
Almeron Dickinson, Tenn.
John H. Dillard, Tenn.
James R. Dimpkins, England
Lewis Duel, N.Y.
Andrew Duvalt, Ireland
Carlos Espalier, San Antonio
Gregorio Esparza, San Antonio
Robert Evans, Ireland
Samuel B. Evans, N.Y.
James L. Ewing, Tenn
William Fahbaugh, Ala.
John Flanders, Mass.
Dolphin Ward Floyd, N.C.
John Hubbard Forsyth, N.Y.
Galba Fuqua, Ala.
William H. Furtleroy, Ky.
William Garnett, Tenn.
James W. Garrand, La.
James Girard Garrett, Tenn.
John E. Garvin
John E. Gaston. Ky.
James George
John Camp Goodrich, Tenn.
Albert Calvin Grimes, Ga.
Jose Maria Guerrero, Laredo, Tex.
James C. Gwynne, England
John Harris, Ky.
Andrew Jackson Harrison
William B. Harrison, Ohio
Charles M. Haskell (Heiskell), Tenn.
Joseph M. Hawkins, Ireland
John M. Hays, Tenn.
Patrick Henry Herndon, Va.
William D. Hersee, England
Tapley Holland, Ohio
Samuel Holloway, Pa.
William D. Howell, Mass.
Thomas Jackson, Ireland
William Daniel Jackson, Ireland
Green B. Jameson, Ky.
Gordon C. Jennings, Conn.
Damacio Jimenes, Tex.
Lewis Johnson, Wales
William Johnson, Pa.
John Jones, N.Y
Johnnie Kellog
James Kenney, Va.
Andrew Kent, Ky.
Joseph Kerr, La.
George C. Kimball (Kimble), N.Y.
William P. King
William Irvine Lewis, Va.
William J. Lightfoot, Va.
Jonalhan L. Lindley, IL.
William Linn, Mass.
George Washington Main, Va.
William T. Malone, Va.
William Marshall, Tenn.
Albert Martin, Rhode Island
Edward McCafferty
Jesse McCoy, Tenn.
William McDowell, Pa.
James McGee, Ireland
John McGregor, Scotland
Robert McKinney, Ireland
Eliel Melton, Ga.
Thomas R. Miller, Tenn.
William Mills, Tenn.
Isaac Millsaps, Miss.
Edward F. Mitchusson, Va.
Edwin T. Mitchell
Napoleon B. Mitchell
Robert B. Moore, Va.
William Moore, Miss.
Robert Musselman, Ohio
Andres Nava, San Antonio
George Neggan, S.C.
Andrew M. Nelson, Tenn.
Edward Nelson S. C.
George Nelson S.C.
James Northcross, Va.
James Nowlan, Ireland
George Pagan, Miss.
Christopher Parker, Miss.
William Parks, N.C.
Richardson Perry
Amos Pollard, Mass.
John Purdy Reynolds, Pa.
Thomas H. Roberts
James Robertson, Tenn.
Isaac Robinson, Scotland
James M. Rose, Va.
Jackson J. Rusk Ireland
Joseph Rutherford, Ky.
Isaac Ryan, La.
Mial Scurlock, N.C.
Marcus L. Sewell, England
Manson Shied, Ga.
Cleveland Kinlock Simmons, S.C.
Andrew H. Smith, Tenn.
Charles S. Smith, Md.
Joshua G. Smith, N.C.
William H. Smith
Richard Starr, England
James E. Stewart, England
Richard L. Stockton, Va.
A. Spain Summerlin Tenn
William E. Summers Tenn
William D. Sutherland, Ala.
Edward Taylor, Tenn.
George Taylor, Tenn.
James Taylor, Tenn.
William Taylor, Tenn.
B. Archer M. Thomas, Ky.
Henry Thomas, Germany
Jesse G. Thompson, Ark.
John W. Thomson, N.C.
John M. Thruston, Pa.
Burke Trammel, Ireland
William Barret Travis, S.C.
George W. Tumlinson, Mo.
James Tylee, N.Y.
Asa Walker, Tenn.
Jacob Walker, Tenn.
William B. Ward, Ireland
Henry Warnell, Ark.
Joseph G. Washington, Tenn.
Thomas Waters, England
William Wells, Ga.
Isaac White, Ky.
Robert White
Hiram J. Williamson, Pa.
William Wills
David L. Wilson, Scotland
John Wilson, Pa.
Anthony Wolfe, England
Claiborne Wright, N.C.
Charles Zanco, Denmark
This are white people that settled on land that was not theirs and fought
with violence to steal the land from their rightful owners, Mexicans. Period, end
of story.
If I misquoted you I applogize. It just sickins me when someone dishoners the
memories of our heros.
I am sorry you cannot read what I said. I don't dishonor those that fight. My
father was a high ranking officer in the Navy and the managing designer of
the electronics for Tomahawk cruise missile. How many lives were saved with that
missile? And how many were lost because they were ordered launched against
innocent people? Just the idiots that make them fight a pointless battle are
ones that I dishonor. I don't regard Custard as a hero even though he wore the
American Uniform and died in battle. He is NOT a hero, but a fool and a bigot.
Did you know about the Bonus Army, and what American Soldiers did to American
Soldiers?
As for Haiti, your correct they need food, medicine and interest free loans.
I am sure that the gangs controling the strets would very much like that. I
have an idea, lets restore order then send those things in. I have to call the
White House right away. Yo may be on to something.
Gosh, considering that Bush cannot fix his own country's economy and interest
on our debt, cannot even balance a budget with a surplus, do you think he can
do better than the thugs on the street?
The "Indian Wars" yea, that was terrible. I am not prepared to discuse the
wars of other nations, or those of conquest dating back eons. How about the
first "caveman" that clubed another for his cave. For that matter lets discuss the
Cain & Able issue. I am an American and we were discussing the actions of our
sitting President.
Yes, and boy have we advanced so beyond the years of those Cavemen that used
clubs to beat each other over the heads of their fellow man rather than common
sense and talking to solve our problems.
BTW, the Indian Wars were in the US. Remember the "Trail of tears"?
The French. Come on think that through. Your the one who listed the Hundres
Years War. They really did a good job in Indochina, Bierut, Somalia, Haiti, The
Phillipines. Wait a second. All those places have something in common. I
know, its were the French failed and we had to pick up the pieces. Sometimes
unsucessfully.
Yes, and Reagan and Bush Sr. did a good job funding Bin Laudin, Saddam, Iran
and Nicaragua. What did they do with all those illegal sumgeled billions of
dollars we gave them? Oh, yeah, they used it to slaughter 1000s of Americans and
100,000s of their own people.
Granada? Whats wrong with a President sending in Troops to rescue American
citizens being held hostage? You dont travel do you?
What I disagree with is the fact that US wanted to take over Granada to put a
military base there. When the Democratically elected Government rejected this
idea, the Reagan Administration attempted to remove it.
The French and Indian war? You need to read up on that one. Its where the
Fench inlisted the Indians to kill Colonists. wemon and children included. Are
you saying we should have not defended our families.
1812? Thats the one where the British invaded our young nation and burned our
Capital. I am missing your point on......no wait I think I get it. You think
we should have remained subjects of the King, or yet never have come to these
shores.
No, you don't understand the full war. First of all, the war of 1812 was
opposed by even Americans at the time. Madison placed an embargo on British Goods.
In 1812 the country relied on British Goods to live. When he did this the
American economy fell, and those that had these limited items made a killing,
making the rich richer and the poor poorer. The reason that the Embargo was
placed was because Americans were stealing British men from their boats, so the
British would capture our ships and steal them back. At this time, male laborers
were in limited supply in England and thus we placed British welfare in
jeopardy. To get back at Britain for this action, we worsened their plight by not
buying their goods and weakening their economy. So after the war was over, both
sides rejoiced to no end.
It was a pointless war.
"How about Korea, defending against an aggressor and all that. Remeber the
North invaded the South before we got involved."
And that all turned out for the better too. Remember how the Republican
President Eisenhower pulled us out because he didn't like the war and thought it
wasn't worth fighting. Oh Yeah.
"I suppose your one of those that feels we should not be involved in the
Middle East,"
Humm, I though you just made the opposite case that in the North Korean war
against Aggressors. So when another country invades a country we should are
justified. But when we do it is also justified? I don't get it? Remember when we
called the Soviet Union the Evil Empire because it did preemptive strikes
against innocent little nations?
"chanting "no blood for oil" while driving three blocks to work, wearing your
rain coat and rubber boots on nasty days, enjoying all the comforts of home.
When you protested the Gulf war, did you use OIL paint to make your signs. I
bet you even complain when gas gets close to $2.00 per gallon. I know you still
dont think its worth one life. You may be right. Before you take a stand, try
for just one day to not use any products or materials that oil had a hand in
producing. That includes food."
I don't doubt at all that oil is an important part of an industrialized
world. But keep in mind two important factors. One, humans lived for a long time
before oil was used for anything other than maybe fire so we can live that way
again. And second, I didn't create the oil dependent world, the oil industry
did, a smart business move. Nor, as a single individual can I change that
reality. However, I can push for society to strive for alternative means to plastics
and transportation for goods and fuel. To suggest that one individual should
give up goods and transportation because he/she cannot change the entire
infrastructure of the industrialized world in a single night or should give up the
fight to save the environment and/or prevent war is not only erroneous
thinking, but would only and could only be made but someone who is simple minded and
only thinks in the immediate future and not the long term.
While I do think that "No Blood for Oil" is putting the war in simplified
terms, most do understand that the main reason the US has gone to war over the
last 50 years has been for the purpose of generating a profit for private
businesses that then give portions of the profits to the campaigns of those that
supported the profits and allowed the war to take place. For example, Helliburtin
does lots of business of reconstruction of Iraq. Helliburtin was a big
supporter of Dick Cheney who was surprisingly an employee of Helliburtin who have
him a job right after he finished running a war against Iraq the first time we
blew it up.
"By preventing instability in the rest of the world we are defending our
country. Remeber WWI(the one you indicatedwas not a moral war), by remaining
isolationist the war got to the point where its was more costly then it needed to
be. Wasnt that kind of the same problem in WWII, Neval?"
Nope, WWI was about two seperate factions fighting over boarders. WWII was
about defending the nation against Japan that attacked and tried to take over
the US. We fought on the other side of the world to help out our ally Britian.
Further, the way WWI ended lead to the creation of Adolf Hitler that lead to
another war and the slaughter of millions of innocent people.
"Yea, U.I.senat, hey thats great. Your not living in the past are you?"
I wasn't living there. Just pointing as a reference of how I vote, since you
asked or assumed how I would vote on the issues. I don't think less than one
year ago was that far in the past. Some might refer to it is as the very recent
past.
I don't oppose war because all war is evil. I oppose war because people go to
war for profit. I don't think anyone should profit from war. It should be
fought because it is right thing to do and more lives will be saved than lost and
nobody should become a millionaire off a war. That is not a party of morals,
it is the party of immorality.
Respectfully,
Donovan J Arnold
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<DIV>In a message dated 3/2/2004 7:06:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, matt@mosc=
owland.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial>The Alamo was an independant action of seperat=
ists hoping to succed from the Mexican terratorial control and had hopes tha=
t after they would be anexed by the US. I assume that when yo say "we" you a=
re not indicating you desire to live in the past. </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>The super majority of people fighting in the Alamo were US Citizens: He=
re a list of the ones that were US Citizens. Some were even members of Congr=
ess.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mills DeForrest Andross, Vermont<BR>Micajah Autry, N.C.<BR>Peter James=20=
Bailey, Ky.<BR>Isaac G. Baker, Ark.<BR>William Charles M. Baker, Mo.<BR>John=
J. Ballentine<BR>Richard W. Ballantine, Scotland<BR>John J. Baugh, Va<BR>Jo=
seph Bayliss, Tenn.<BR>John Blair, Tenn.<BR>Samuel C. Blair, Tenn.<BR>Willia=
m Blazeby, England<BR>James Butler Bonham, S.C.<BR>Daniel Bourne, England<BR=
>James Bowie, Tenn<BR>Jesse B. Bowman<BR>George Brown, England<BR>James Brow=
n, Pa.<BR>Robert Brown<BR>James Buchanan, Ala.<BR>Samuel E. Burns, Ireland<B=
R>George D. Butler, Mo<BR>Robert Campbell, Tenn.<BR>John Cane, Pa.<BR>Willia=
m R. Carey, Va.<BR>Charles Henry Clark, Mo<BR>M.B. Clark<BR>Daniel William C=
loud, Ky.<BR>Robert E. Cochran, N.J.<BR>George Washington Cottle, Tenn.<BR>H=
enry Courtman, Germany<BR>Lemuel Crawford, S.C.<BR>David Crockett, Tenn.<BR>=
Robert Crossman, Mass.<BR>David P. Cummings, Pa.<BR>Robert Cunningham, N.Y.<=
BR>Jacob C. Darst, Ky.<BR>John Davis, Ky.<BR>Freeman H. K. Day<BR>Jerry C. D=
ay, Mo.<BR>Squire Daymon, Tenn.<BR>William Dearduff, Tenn.<BR>Stephen Dennis=
on, England<BR>Charles Despallier, La.<BR>Almeron Dickinson, Tenn.<BR>John H=
. Dillard, Tenn.<BR>James R. Dimpkins, England<BR>Lewis Duel, N.Y.<BR>Andrew=
Duvalt, Ireland<BR>Carlos Espalier, San Antonio<BR>Gregorio Esparza, San An=
tonio<BR>Robert Evans, Ireland<BR>Samuel B. Evans, N.Y.<BR>James L. Ewing, T=
enn<BR>William Fahbaugh, Ala.<BR>John Flanders, Mass.<BR>Dolphin Ward Floyd,=
N.C.<BR>John Hubbard Forsyth, N.Y.<BR>Galba Fuqua, Ala.<BR>William H. Furtl=
eroy, Ky.<BR>William Garnett, Tenn.<BR>James W. Garrand, La.<BR>James Girard=
Garrett, Tenn.<BR>John E. Garvin<BR>John E. Gaston. Ky.<BR>James George<BR>=
John Camp Goodrich, Tenn.<BR>Albert Calvin Grimes, Ga.<BR>Jose Maria Guerrer=
o, Laredo, Tex.<BR>James C. Gwynne, England<BR>John Harris, Ky.<BR>Andrew Ja=
ckson Harrison<BR>William B. Harrison, Ohio<BR>Charles M. Haskell (Heiskell)=
, Tenn.<BR>Joseph M. Hawkins, Ireland<BR>John M. Hays, Tenn.<BR>Patrick Henr=
y Herndon, Va.<BR>William D. Hersee, England<BR>Tapley Holland, Ohio<BR>Samu=
el Holloway, Pa.<BR>William D. Howell, Mass.<BR>Thomas Jackson, Ireland<BR>W=
illiam Daniel Jackson, Ireland<BR>Green B. Jameson, Ky.<BR>Gordon C. Jenning=
s, Conn.<BR>Damacio Jimenes, Tex.<BR>Lewis Johnson, Wales<BR>William Johnson=
, Pa.<BR>John Jones, N.Y<BR>Johnnie Kellog<BR>James Kenney, Va.<BR>Andrew Ke=
nt, Ky.<BR>Joseph Kerr, La.<BR>George C. Kimball (Kimble), N.Y.<BR>William P=
. King<BR>William Irvine Lewis, Va.<BR>William J. Lightfoot, Va.<BR>Jonalhan=
L. Lindley, IL.<BR>William Linn, Mass.<BR>George Washington Main, Va.<BR>Wi=
lliam T. Malone, Va.<BR>William Marshall, Tenn.<BR>Albert Martin, Rhode Isla=
nd<BR>Edward McCafferty<BR>Jesse McCoy, Tenn.<BR>William McDowell, Pa.<BR>Ja=
mes McGee, Ireland<BR>John McGregor, Scotland<BR>Robert McKinney, Ireland<BR=
>Eliel Melton, Ga.<BR>Thomas R. Miller, Tenn.<BR>William Mills, Tenn.<BR>Isa=
ac Millsaps, Miss.<BR>Edward F. Mitchusson, Va.<BR>Edwin T. Mitchell<BR>Napo=
leon B. Mitchell<BR>Robert B. Moore, Va.<BR>William Moore, Miss.<BR>Robert M=
usselman, Ohio<BR>Andres Nava, San Antonio<BR>George Neggan, S.C.<BR>Andrew=20=
M. Nelson, Tenn.<BR>Edward Nelson S. C.<BR>George Nelson S.C.<BR>James North=
cross, Va.<BR>James Nowlan, Ireland<BR>George Pagan, Miss.<BR>Christopher Pa=
rker, Miss.<BR>William Parks, N.C.<BR>Richardson Perry<BR>Amos Pollard, Mass=
.<BR>John Purdy Reynolds, Pa.<BR>Thomas H. Roberts<BR>James Robertson, Tenn.=
<BR>Isaac Robinson, Scotland<BR>James M. Rose, Va.<BR>Jackson J. Rusk Irelan=
d<BR>Joseph Rutherford, Ky.<BR>Isaac Ryan, La.<BR>Mial Scurlock, N.C.<BR>Mar=
cus L. Sewell, England<BR>Manson Shied, Ga.<BR>Cleveland Kinlock Simmons, S.=
C.<BR>Andrew H. Smith, Tenn.<BR>Charles S. Smith, Md.<BR>Joshua G. Smith, N.=
C.<BR>William H. Smith<BR>Richard Starr, England<BR>James E. Stewart, Englan=
d<BR>Richard L. Stockton, Va.<BR>A. Spain Summerlin Tenn<BR>William E. Summe=
rs Tenn<BR>William D. Sutherland, Ala.<BR>Edward Taylor, Tenn.<BR>George Tay=
lor, Tenn.<BR>James Taylor, Tenn.<BR>William Taylor, Tenn.<BR>B. Archer M. T=
homas, Ky.<BR>Henry Thomas, Germany<BR>Jesse G. Thompson, Ark.<BR>John W. Th=
omson, N.C.<BR>John M. Thruston, Pa.<BR>Burke Trammel, Ireland<BR>William Ba=
rret Travis, S.C.<BR>George W. Tumlinson, Mo.<BR>James Tylee, N.Y.<BR>Asa Wa=
lker, Tenn.<BR>Jacob Walker, Tenn.<BR>William B. Ward, Ireland<BR>Henry Warn=
ell, Ark.<BR>Joseph G. Washington, Tenn.<BR>Thomas Waters, England<BR>Willia=
m Wells, Ga.<BR>Isaac White, Ky.<BR>Robert White<BR>Hiram J. Williamson, Pa.=
<BR>William Wills<BR>David L. Wilson, Scotland<BR>John Wilson, Pa.<BR>Anthon=
y Wolfe, England<BR>Claiborne Wright, N.C.<BR>Charles Zanco, Denmark<BR></DI=
V>
<DIV>This are white people that settled on land that was not theirs and foug=
ht with violence to steal the land from their rightful owners, Mexicans. Per=
iod, end of story.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>If I misquoted you I applogize. It jus=
t sickins me when someone dishoners the memories of our heros.</FONT></BLOCK=
QUOTE>
<DIV>I am sorry you cannot read what I said. I don't dishonor those that fig=
ht. My father was a high ranking officer in the Navy and the manag=
ing designer of the electronics for Tomahawk cruise missile. How many l=
ives were saved with that missile? And how many were lost because they=20=
were ordered launched against innocent people? Just the idiots that mak=
e them fight a pointless battle are ones that I dishonor. I don't regard Cus=
tard as a hero even though he wore the American Uniform and died in battle.=20=
He is NOT a hero, but a fool and a bigot. Did you know about the Bonus Army,=
and what American Soldiers did to American Soldiers?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>As for Haiti, your correct they need f=
ood, medicine and interest free loans. I am sure that the gangs controling t=
he strets would very much like that. I have an idea, lets restore order then=
send those things in. I have to call the White House right away. Yo may be=20=
on to something.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Gosh, considering that Bush cannot fix his own country's economy a=
nd interest on our debt, cannot even balance a budget with a surplus, do you=
think he can do better than the thugs on the street? </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>The "Indian Wars" yea, that was terrib=
le. I am not prepared to discuse the wars of other nations, or those of conq=
uest dating back eons. How about the first "caveman" that clubed another for=
his cave. For that matter lets discuss the Cain & Able issue. I am an A=
merican and we were discussing the actions of our sitting President. </FONT>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Yes, and boy have we advanced so beyond the years of those Cavemen that=
used clubs to beat each other over the heads of their fellow man rather tha=
n common sense and talking to solve our problems. </DIV>
<DIV>BTW, the Indian Wars were in the US. Remember the "Trail of tears"=
?</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>The French. Come on think that through=
. Your the one who listed the Hundres Years War. They really did a good job=20=
in Indochina, Bierut, Somalia, Haiti, The Phillipines. Wait a second. All th=
ose places have something in common. I know, its were the French failed and=20=
we had to pick up the pieces. Sometimes unsucessfully.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Yes, and Reagan and Bush Sr. did a good job funding Bin Laudi=
n, Saddam, Iran and Nicaragua. What did they do with all those illegal sumge=
led billions of dollars we gave them? Oh, yeah, they used it to slaught=
er 1000s of Americans and 100,000s of their own people. </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>Granada? Whats wrong with a President=20=
sending in Troops to rescue American citizens being held hostage? You dont t=
ravel do you?</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>What I disagree with is the fact that US wanted to take over Granada to=
put a military base there. When the Democratically elected Government rejec=
ted this idea, the Reagan Administration attempted to remove it.</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><BR><BR>The French and Indian war? You need to=
read up on that one. Its where the Fench inlisted the Indians to kill Colon=
ists. wemon and children included. Are you saying we should have not defende=
d our families. <BR><BR>1812? Thats the one where the British invaded our yo=
ung nation and burned our Capital. I am missing your point on......no wait I=
think I get it. You think we should have remained subjects of the King, or=20=
yet never have come to these shores.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>No, you don't understand the full war. First of all, the war of 1812 wa=
s opposed by even Americans at the time. Madison placed an embargo on Britis=
h Goods. In 1812 the country relied on British Goods to live. When he did th=
is the American economy fell, and those that had these limited items made a=20=
killing, making the rich richer and the poor poorer. The reason that the Emb=
argo was placed was because Americans were stealing British men from their b=
oats, so the British would capture our ships and steal them back. At this ti=
me, male laborers were in limited supply in England and thus we placed Briti=
sh welfare in jeopardy. To get back at Britain for this action, we wors=
ened their plight by not buying their goods and weakening their economy=
. So after the war was over, both sides rejoiced to no end.</DIV>
<DIV>It was a pointless war. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<DIV><BR>"How about Korea, defending against an aggressor and all that. Reme=
ber the North invaded the South before we got involved."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>And that all turned out for the better too. Remember how the Republican=
President Eisenhower pulled us out because he didn't like the war and thoug=
ht it wasn't worth fighting. Oh Yeah. <BR><BR>"I suppose your one of t=
hose that feels we should not be involved in the Middle East,"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Humm, I though you just made the opposite case that in the North Korean=
war against Aggressors. So when another country invades a country we should=
are justified. But when we do it is also justified? I don't get it? Remembe=
r when we called the Soviet Union the Evil Empire because it did preemptive=20=
strikes against innocent little nations?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"chanting "no blood for oil" while driving three blocks to work, wearin=
g your rain coat and rubber boots on nasty days, enjoying all the comforts o=
f home. When you protested the Gulf war, did you use OIL paint to make your=20=
signs. I bet you even complain when gas gets close to $2.00 per gallon. I kn=
ow you still dont think its worth one life. You may be right. Before you tak=
e a stand, try for just one day to not use any products or materials that oi=
l had a hand in producing. That includes food."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't doubt at all that oil is an important part of an industrialized=
world. But keep in mind two important factors. One, humans lived for a long=
time before oil was used for anything other than maybe fire so we can live=20=
that way again. And second, I didn't create the oil dependent world, the oil=
industry did, a smart business move. Nor, as a single individual can I chan=
ge that reality. However, I can push for society to strive for alternative m=
eans to plastics and transportation for goods and fuel. To suggest that one=20=
individual should give up goods and transportation because he/she cannot cha=
nge the entire infrastructure of the industrialized world in a single n=
ight or should give up the fight to save the environment and/or prevent war=20=
is not only erroneous thinking, but would only and could only be made but so=
meone who is simple minded and only thinks in the immediate future and not t=
he long term.</DIV>
<DIV>While I do think that "No Blood for Oil" is putting the war i=
n simplified terms, most do understand that the main reason the US has gone=20=
to war over the last 50 years has been for the purpose of generating a profi=
t for private businesses that then give portions of the profits to the=20=
campaigns of those that supported the profits and allowed the war to take pl=
ace. For example, Helliburtin does lots of business of reconstruction of Ira=
q. Helliburtin was a big supporter of Dick Cheney who was surprisingly an em=
ployee of Helliburtin who have him a job right after he finished running a w=
ar against Iraq the first time we blew it up. <BR><BR>"By preventing instabi=
lity in the rest of the world we are defending our country. Remeber WWI(the=20=
one you indicatedwas not a moral war), by remaining isolationist the war got=
to the point where its was more costly then it needed to be. Wasnt that kin=
d of the same problem in WWII, Neval?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Nope, WWI was about two seperate factions fighting over boarders. WWII=20=
was about defending the nation against Japan that attacked and tried to take=
over the US. We fought on the other side of the world to help out our ally=20=
Britian. Further, the way WWI ended lead to the creation of Adolf Hitler tha=
t lead to another war and the slaughter of millions of innocent people. =
;<BR><BR>"Yea, U.I.senat, hey thats great. Your not living in the past are y=
ou?"</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I wasn't living there. Just pointing as a reference of how I vote, sinc=
e you asked or assumed how I would vote on the issues. I don't think less th=
an one year ago was that far in the past. Some might refer to it is as the v=
ery recent past.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I don't oppose war because all war is evil. I oppose war because people=
go to war for profit. I don't think anyone should profit from war. It shoul=
d be fought because it is right thing to do and more lives will be saved tha=
n lost and nobody should become a millionaire off a war. That is not a party=
of morals, it is the party of immorality. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Respectfully,</DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J Arnold</DIV>
<DIV></FONT> </DIV>
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