[Vision2020] Lies?
Saundra Lund
sslund@adelphia.net
Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:47:04 -0800
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, IMHO.
AFAIK, for a lie to be a lie, there must be a *deliberate* attempt to
mislead.
Lies are not to be confused with mistakes, where there isn't a *deliberate*
attempt to mislead or create a false impression.
Doug Wilson told a wicked lie in his op-ed piece where he *intentionally*
attempted to mislead uninformed people by saying the recent Moscow Community
/ Christ Church controversy was about homosexuality rather than about his
revisionist views on slavery. He & his followers may have issues about
homosexuality, but that's not the issue most in the Moscow Community were up
in arms about this time -- although I'm more than happy to take Wilson et al
to task on that topic as well :-)
Rose Huskey apparently was mistaken about the publisher of one of Steve
Wilkins' books.
Ms. Zoe may have difficulties recognizing the distinction between lies and
mistakes, but I'm willing to bet most of us don't have the same problem
because we've not allowed our minds to become clouded by false prophets.
*Not* that I'm a Biblical scholar or anything, but I do remember some of my
childhood Sunday School lessons fairly well.
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
nothing.
-Edmund Burke
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
Behalf Of Lucy Zoe
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:42 AM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #1194 - 10 msgs
Joan,
Thanks for your response. Rose made the comment
publicly and did not retract it. She didn't offend me -
the lie was not about me, and therefore she had no
reason to apologize to me. She didn't retract the
comment or apologize to Vision2020 for posting
information she knew to be incorrect. Was that her
first inaccuracy or one of many?
Rose is first in line to "poke" at those whose spew
their version of the truth or fail (in her opinion) to live
up to the practices and beliefs they embrace. If she
holds others to high standards, why doesn't she
hold herself to the same? Isn't that hypocrisy?
Rose tells me her *words* have no effect. Well, that
dog won't hunt. Her vicious attacks, in a medium
which depends on words, are calculated and born
out of something more than just a quest to "speak
truth to power."
It would be refreshing to see you spread some of
that mercy around.
Lucy Zoe
Lucy Jones asks:
>Just wondering Rose...haven't you lied about Canon Press
>on Vision2020? Seems a little odd for you to be talking
>about integrity. You never did explain why you lied. What
>motivated you to do it? Your love for truth? Or hate?
>Lucy Zoe
If I'm remembering correctly, Lucy (since I can't seem to get into the
archives), the "lie" you refer to has to do with Rose mistakenly posting
that a Steve Wilkins' book on hospitality was in fact about something
else.
Not really life or death stuff. Not really a lie, either, come to think
of
it. As I also recall, she apologized to you for that mistake and
offered to
post a correction.
To paraphrase the late great Hank Williams, your bucket's got a hole in
it.
You cain't buy no beer.
Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
"We've got a right to pick a little fight, Bonanza!"
_________________________________________________________________
Find high-speed net deals comparison-shop your local providers here.
https://broadband.msn.com
--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Art Deco" <deco@moscow.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #1193 - 7 msgs
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:37:56 -0800
When accusing someone of lying, it is instructive to show what lies are
being complained of and why the accuser thinks they are lies; otherwise
one
thinks the accuser is a gutless sniper.
Wayne Fox
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucy Zoe" <lucyzoe@moscow.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #1193 - 7 msgs
> Just wondering Rose...haven't you lied about Canon Press
> on Vision2020? Seems a little odd for you to be talking
> about integrity. You never did explain why you lied. What
> motivated you to do it? Your love for truth? Or hate?
> Lucy Zoe
>
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
>
>
--__--__--
Message: 6
Reply-To: <thansen@moscow.com>
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>
To: "Vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:53:43 -0800
Subject: [Vision2020] Not On The Palouse, Not Ever (Update #18)
Greetings -
Not On The Palouse, Not Ever (Update #18) is a dedication to Martin
Luther
King Jr.. In commemoration of this great civil rights activist, "Not On
The
Palouse, Not Ever" has posted his entire "I Have a Dream" speech (both
text
and audio files) for your viewing and downloading pleasure.
As always you may access this link and/or view/sign our Open Letter,
sign on
to our mailing list, participate in "Raise Your Hands for Human Rights",
and
provide us your opinion from:
http://www.tomandrodna.com/notonthepalouse/
Take care,
Tom Hansen
Not On The Palouse, Not Ever
"Each time a man stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of
others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple
of
hope."
Robert F. Kennedy
(1925-1968, American Attorney General, Senator)
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 20:07:59 -0800
From: bill london <london@moscow.com>
To: Tom Trail <ttrail@house.state.id.us>, Vision2020
<vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] UI Presidency candidate
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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This message, sent from Tom Trail to V2020, focuses on one of the two
candidates for UI President, Steve Jones. FYI.
BL
Tom Trail wrote:
>Bill--A good friend of mine, Dr. John Richardson, works for Extension
>at the North Carolina State University. He knows one of the
>candidates,
>Steve Jones, who is a candidate for the University of Idaho
>Presidency.
>I asked John for his evaluation of Dr. Jones. I thought it worth
>sharing
>with Vision2020.
>
>Rep. Tom Trail
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Steve Jones
> From:
> John Richardson <john_richardson@ncsu.edu>
> Date:
> Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:35:10 -0500
> To:
> Tom Trail <ttrail@house.state.id.us>
>
>
> Hello Tom,
>
> I am sure you saw the message that I forwarded to you yesterday from
> George Young at Auburn. In reality, that pretty well telescopes what
> other comments I have gleaned and my personal observation of Steve
> Jones. The thing hit the Raleigh paper yesterday, and I saw that
> Steve is knocking down $180,000 annually, so he is one of the high
> fliers around here.
>
> Tom, Steve is seen as a friendly, affable person who relates to folks
> at all levels, whether in groups or individually. He has demonstrated
> a keen sense and energy for building partnerships here on campus, in
> state government and with industry. This coalition and partnership
> building is a hallmark of his successes here so far. He came into a
> role that was expected to roll all extension efforts under one main
> office. So, since Cooperative Extension is the 800 pound gorilla and
> in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, there has been some
> ticklish moments in weaving all of the entities together in a more
> unified fashion from the whole university. Steve has taken a very
> measured and conciliatory approach that has not left lasting harm or
> ruffled feathers as he has forged a very workable relationship with
> CES as well as the other entities. So, his ability to collaborate and
> be flexible has proven to serve him well.
>
> Steve is known for looking for funding sources via grants, gifts, and
> other shared funding with industry and other institutions. He has
> established this reputation everywhere he has worked. Also, in this
> regard, he has sufficient vision and broad thinking abilities to make
> things happen without upsetting the apple cart in the process.
>
> Tom, from my personal perspective as well as that from others, this is
> the way we see Steve Jones. To be honest, I think you would do well
> to consider him very seriously.
>
> You take care my friend, and if I can be of further assistance, please
> let me know.
>
> John
>
> Tom Trail wrote:
>
>> John--I have a big favor to ask you. We are currently in the final
>> stages of a search for a President for the University of Idaho. We
>> are
>> down to two finalists. One of the finalists is Steven Jones, Vice
>> Chancellor for Extension and Engagement at North Carolina State
>> University in Raleigh.
>> Can you and any of your colleagues give me the straight scoop on this
>> gentlemen--the good, the bad, and the ugly as Clint Eastwood put it.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>
>
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
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content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
This message, sent from Tom Trail to V2020, focuses on one of the two
candidates for UI President, Steve Jones. FYI.<br>
BL<br>
<br>
Tom Trail wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mids006931f.026@lso_lsocomm.state.id.us">
<pre wrap="">Bill--A good friend of mine, Dr. John Richardson, works
for Extension
at the North Carolina State University. He knows one of the
candidates,
Steve Jones, who is a candidate for the University of Idaho
Presidency.
I asked John for his evaluation of Dr. Jones. I thought it worth
sharing
with Vision2020.
Rep. Tom Trail</pre>
<br>
<hr width="90%" size="4"><br>
<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"
class="header-part1">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Subject:
</div>
Steve Jones</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">From:
</div>
John Richardson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:john_richardson@ncsu.edu"><john_richardson@ncsu.edu><
/a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">Date:
</div>
Thu, 15 Jan 2004 11:35:10 -0500</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>
<div class="headerdisplayname" style="display: inline;">To:
</div>
Tom Trail <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:ttrail@house.state.id.us"><ttrail@house.state.id.us><
/a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
Hello Tom,
<br>
<br>
I am sure you saw the message that I forwarded to you yesterday from
George Young at Auburn. In reality, that pretty well telescopes
what
other comments I have gleaned and my personal observation of Steve
Jones. The thing hit the Raleigh paper yesterday, and I saw that
Steve
is knocking down $180,000 annually, so he is one of the high fliers
around here.
<br>
<br>
Tom, Steve is seen as a friendly, affable person who relates to folks
at all levels, whether in groups or individually. He has
demonstrated
a keen sense and energy for building partnerships here on campus, in
state government and with industry. This coalition and partnership
building is a hallmark of his successes here so far. He came into
a
role that was expected to roll all extension efforts under one main
office. So, since Cooperative Extension is the 800 pound gorilla
and
in the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, there has been some
ticklish moments in weaving all of the entities together in a more
unified fashion from the whole university. Steve has taken a very
measured and conciliatory approach that has not left lasting harm or
ruffled feathers as he has forged a very workable relationship with CES
as well as the other entities. So, his ability to collaborate and
be
flexible has proven to serve him well.
<br>
<br>
Steve is known for looking for funding sources via grants, gifts, and
other shared funding with industry and other institutions. He has
established this reputation everywhere he has worked. Also, in
this
regard, he has sufficient vision and broad thinking abilities to make
things happen without upsetting the apple cart in the process.
<br>
<br>
Tom, from my personal perspective as well as that from others, this is
the way we see Steve Jones. To be honest, I think you would do
well to
consider him very seriously.
<br>
<br>
You take care my friend, and if I can be of further assistance, please
let me know.
<br>
<br>
John
<br>
<br>
Tom Trail wrote:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">John--I have a big favor to ask you. We
are
currently in the final
<br>
stages of a search for a President for the University of Idaho. We
<br>
are
<br>
down to two finalists. One of the finalists is Steven Jones, Vice
<br>
Chancellor for Extension and Engagement at North Carolina State
<br>
University in Raleigh. <br>
Can you and any of your colleagues give me the straight scoop on this
<br>
gentlemen--the good, the bad, and the ugly as Clint Eastwood put it.
<br>
<br>
Thanks.
<br>
<br>
Tom
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>
--------------070505090403060204090004--
--__--__--
Message: 8
From: Aldoussoma@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 00:03:36 EST
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Eclipses and the Veil
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Visionaries:
Maybe I have it wrong. No doubt many of you are convinced of this.
I considered after I wrote the V2020 post today mentioning veiled women
that,
during lunar or solar eclipses, which are a "veiling" of the moon or
sun,
these celestial events do inspire feelings of power, beauty and mystery.
But not
because the objects they veil are rarely seen. In fact, it is the
opposite,
just like at Mardi Gras or Halloween, that because the objects are
commonly
viewed, when they are veiled, they become extraordinarily mysterious.
We are accustomed to the regular appearance of certain events, therefore
when
they disappear, the invalidation of our perceptual expectations induces
a
cognitive dissonance difficult to resolve. This psychology could be
utilized to
design a wonderful spiritual holiday of renewal.
I propose that we mandate total nudity in public during the summer.
Then, on
a special day designated for the worship of the sacred temple of the
human
body, and our existence as persons first and foremost, we all wear burka
style
garments, men and women alike, of all races, religions and ethnicity's,
to
facilitate experiencing the veiled secrets of humankind! The Equinox
would be a
fitting moment of balance between the seasons after the warmth of summer
for
this celebration of the equality of the sexes, of all religions and
races, and
the unfathomable divinity of our humanity, when we could not tell who
was women
or man, black or white, our bodies covered, head to toe. Quietude,
fasting,
yoga, and blissful meditations on wild and natural environments would be
encouraged. Of course, sex would contradict the vast abstract yet
embodied
meanings behind the Veil.
This rite would assume the awesome aura of eclipses of the moon and sun.
The
mystery and beauty of our bodies would be renewed the day after, when
our
marvelous flesh was revealed, reveling in the sensual pleasure of
existence, with
our common humanity and divinity renewed. Everyone would be reawakened
in
childlike innocence, as though we suddenly found ourselves alive and
drunk in
the unexplainable grandeur of our existence on the first day of
creation. And
the ban on sex the day before would leave room for the expected
forbidden
pleasures humanity craves. How many burkas were lifted in secrecy no
one would
know.
We must push the edge of the progressive Enlightenment, that terrifying
liberal humanist envelope ever expanding... Onward!
Ted
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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10>
<BR>Visionaries:
<BR>
<BR>Maybe I have it wrong. No doubt many of you are convinced of
this.
<BR>
<BR>I considered after I wrote the V2020 post today mentioning veiled
women=20=
that, during lunar or solar eclipses, which are a "veiling" of the moon
or s=
un, these celestial events do inspire feelings of power, beauty and
mystery.=
But not because the objects they veil are rarely seen. In
fact,=
it is the opposite, just like at Mardi Gras or Halloween, that because
the=20=
objects are commonly viewed, when they are veiled, they become
extraordinari=
ly mysterious.
<BR>
<BR>We are accustomed to the regular appearance of certain events,
therefore=
when they disappear, the invalidation of our perceptual expectations
induce=
s a cognitive dissonance difficult to resolve. This psychology
could b=
e utilized to design a wonderful spiritual holiday of renewal.
<BR>
<BR>I propose that we mandate total nudity in public during the summer.
&nbs=
p;Then, on a special day designated for the worship of the sacred temple
of=20=
the human body, and our existence as persons first and foremost, we all
wear=
burka style garments, men and women alike, of all races, religions and
ethn=
icity's, to facilitate experiencing the veiled secrets of humankind!
T=
he Equinox would be a fitting moment of balance between the seasons
after th=
e warmth of summer for this celebration of the equality of the sexes, of
all=
religions and races, and the unfathomable divinity of our humanity,
when we=
could not tell who was women or man, black or white, our bodies
covered, he=
ad to toe. Quietude, fasting, yoga, and blissful meditations on
wild a=
nd natural environments would be encouraged. Of course, sex would
cont=
radict the vast abstract yet embodied meanings behind the Veil.
<BR>
<BR>This rite would assume the awesome aura of eclipses of the moon and
sun.=
The mystery and beauty of our bodies would be renewed the day
after,=20=
when our marvelous flesh was revealed, reveling in the sensual pleasure
of e=
xistence, with our common humanity and divinity renewed. Everyone
woul=
d be reawakened in childlike innocence, as though we suddenly found
ourselve=
s alive and drunk in the unexplainable grandeur of our existence on the
firs=
t day of creation. And the ban on sex the day before would leave
room=20=
for the expected forbidden pleasures humanity craves. How many
burkas=20=
were lifted in secrecy no one would know.
<BR>
<BR>We must push the edge of the progressive Enlightenment, that
terrifying=20=
liberal humanist envelope ever expanding... Onward!
<BR>
<BR>Ted
<BR>
<BR> </FONT></HTML>
--part1_1dc.188e7886.2d38caa8_boundary--
--__--__--
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:13:30 -0800
From: Sara Anderson <ande1022@uidaho.edu>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Apples and Oranges
1) Washing a car while topless in a little town in Idaho is an act that
cannot be separated from sexuality.
2) Rape is an act that cannoy be separated from sexuality.
3) Apples do not equal oranges.
4) Apples are fruit, and oranges are also fruit.
5) Apples and oranges have characteristics in common, though they are
not the same.
6) Integrate
7) As the rate of toplessness increases, apple pie is more abundant.
As you can see from the above proof, the anti-nudity law did us all harm
in decreasing the amounts of apple pie in the local commmunity. No.
What I'm trying to point out is that permitting nudity has nothing to do
with permitting (encouraging) rape. Not only is that an awful spin on
the "She was asking for it, and men have Urges," foolishness, but it
doesn't make sense. Analogies are useful rhetorical tools, if the two
things being compared are analogous. This appears to be implicit
namecalling (You wouldn't mind topless chicks washing your car?! You
are encouraging rape! Rapist!).
Your slippery slope is my (topless?) slip 'n' slide,
Sara Anderson
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:34:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Debbie Gray <dgray@uidaho.edu>
To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] uppity blues women
I briefly (in between screams and bionicle explosions from my darling
children) heard something on the radio about Saffire: Uppity Blues
Women
throwing a concert or something around here or something? (see how much
detail I managed to filter?) Does anyone know anything about it? Anyone?
Anyone? Bueller?
Muchly appreciated
Debbie Gray
and now back to your regularly scheduled bickering
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
Debbie Gray dgray@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~dgray/
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to
have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
--__--__--
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
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End of Vision2020 Digest
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ