[Vision2020] Quaker GI flees Army Unit
Tom Hansen
thansen@moscow.com
Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:24:54 -0800
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AWOLs and "desertion" for religious reasons (Quaker, this time) are very
very common.
In 1991 a soldier refused to ship out with his unit to Iraq. This was
reported by CNN.
During Vietnam, people refused to register with the Selective Service System
(spelled D-R-A-F-T) and many of them went to Canada.
It is easier to understand why draftees refuse to "go". In today's All
Volunteer Army, I simply cannot understand this refusal to "go". I am
certain that they understood what was ahead of them when they raised their
hand and took the oath. They had to have realized that the Army is alot
more than sitting back and collecting a paycheck twice a month.
I have absolutely no sympathy for an enlistee that refuses to go, based on
his/her religious convictions. His/Her religious convistions didn't keep
him/her from enlisting.
What ever happened to the old saying, "Serving Proudly"?
I consider these people to be a personal slap in the faced of all those who
went before them.
Take care,
Tom Hansen
SFC, U.S. Army (Retired)
Not On The Palouse, Not Ever
A good friend will come and bail you out of jail. But, a true friend will
be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Tim Lohrmann
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:03 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Quaker GI flees Army Unit
Visioners,
The first real desertion I've seen reported since the Iraqi invasion
started.
I understand there are plenty of AWOL's though.
TL
http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=military&Story=6185924
Published on: 2004-02-19
Quaker deserts as unit deploys
By Julia Oliver
Staff writer
Contributed photo
Jeremy Hinzman fled to Canada with his wife, Nga Nguyen, and their son,
Liam, in January.
Jeremy Hinzman said he could barely stomach chanting "kill we will"
during basic training and, as a Quaker, he didn't want to shoot anybody. But
it was the thought of serving U.S. interests in Iraq that made the 82nd
Airborne Division specialist flee to Canada last month.
"I would have felt no different than a private in the German Army during
World War II," he said by phone from Toronto, where he is seeking refugee
status.
Hinzman, 25, who was a member of the 2nd Battalion of the 504th
Parachute Infantry Regiment, is subject to prosecution as a deserter if he
is caught within U.S. borders.
His name will go on a national database that law enforcement officers
can access, said Sgt. Pam Smith, a spokeswoman for the 82nd Airborne. He can
be arrested, but the Army won't go looking for him, she said.
"We don't have time to go and track down people who go AWOL," she said.
"We're fighting a war."
Hinzman, who grew up in Ra! pid City, S.D., joined the Army in January
2001. The socialist structure of the military appealed to him, he said. He
liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end of his service,
the money for college.
"It seemed like a good financial decision," he said. And, he said, "I
had a romantic vision of what the Army was."
But from the beginning, basic training bothered him. He said he was
horrified by the chanting about blood and killing during marches, by the
shooting at targets without faces and by what he called the dehumanization
of the enemy.
"It's like watching some kind of scary movie, except I was in it," he
said. "People would just walk around saying things like, 'Oh, I want to kill
somebody.'"
He felt that the prospect of killing should be taken more seriously and
that soldiers should not talk about death in such a cavalier way, he said.
In August 2002, Hinzman turned in his first application to be a
conscientious objector. He wanted to fulfill! his service obligation, he
said, but he didn't want to participate in combat. He wrote a six-page
explanation of his beliefs, but the Army told him it was lost.
"I was informed three months later that it was never received," he said.
Last fall, while doing clerical work, he was given a file that included that
application.
By the time Hinzman applied again at the end of October, his unit was on
track to go to Afghanistan. He deployed in December, and the application was
pending.
"I didn't mind being deployed. I just didn't want to shoot anybody," he
said.
Not allowed to go on patrol, he worked as a dishwasher, often 15 hours a
day and, for the first few months, without a day off. He said his unit
didn't get into any major combat.
Application denied
While he was in Afghanistan, his application for conscientious objector
status was evaluated and denied, he said. Hinzman said he thinks one
question - Would he defend h! is unit if attacked? - destroyed his chances.
He said he answered yes, reasoning that he had no choice if he was forced to
carry a gun.
"I was a little bit too honest, I guess," he said.
In July, he returned to Fayetteville, and to his wife, Nga Nguyen, and
their 14-month-old son, Liam.
"My son, of course, was a little bit shy about seeing me, but that went
away after a few hours," he said.
He and Nguyen figured it was only a matter of time before his unit would
go to Iraq. He said he felt the war there was unjust and was being fought
over oil interests.
"Had we, say, gone to war with North Korea or someone that was an
imminent threat, I would have gone along with it," he said. "I signed up to
defend our country, not be a pawn in some sort of political ideology."
He began to think about his options. And about what he might have to do
if he went to Iraq.
On Dec. 20, Hinzman found out that his unit would be deployed. And on
Jan. 2, he packed his famil! y into his car for the 18-hour drive to Canada.
The three left at night, on the Friday of a four-day weekend. Hinzman's
absence wasn't noticed until that Monday; he wasn't declared AWOL until the
following day.
Support network
Through his philosophical objections to the Army, Hinzman has received
much support from Quakers in Fayetteville and Toronto. He has always been
interested in Buddhism, he said, but joined the Friends Meeting after he
moved to Fayetteville and couldn't find a place to worship in the Buddhist
faith.
"The Quaker's mode of worship was closest to meditation because it's
silent," he said. In Toronto, the Quakers took Hinzman and his family in
while they looked for an apartment, he said.
Ann Ashford, recording clerk at the Fayetteville Friends Meeting, said
Hinzman and his wife were faithful attendees of the meetings. She said the
community supports Hinzman, but no one at the meeting knew he was planning
to desert.
"We're all very concerned about him," she said.
Ashford said Hinzman spoke with Chuck Fager, executive director of the
Quaker House, a related organization that counsels soldiers who are seeking
discharge from the military. Fager could not be reached Wednesday but has
said in an e-mail that calls to the organization's hot line from service
members and their families last year reached a record total of 6,187, up by
50 percent from the year before.
According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Hinzman is believed to be the
first U.S. soldier filing for refugee status in Canada for refusing duty in
Iraq. During the Vietnam War, an estimated 30,000 Americans sought refuge in
Canada to avoid compulsory military service.
Hinzman's chances of receiving refugee status are statistically slim:
According to Canada's Immigration and Refugee Board, none of the 268
American applicants last year was accepted. But people who are denied
refugee status are not automatically deported; they may be granted
permission to stay in Canada under other provisions, said Charles Hawkins, a
spokesman for the board.
Hinzman knows that the decisio! n will take awhile.
"It's a big drawn-out process," he said.
He said that the hardest part has been leaving the people in his unit,
which is still in Iraq.
"I didn't do this out of animosity toward them," he said, "but toward
the situation we were in."
Staff writer Julia Oliver can be reached at oliverj@fayettevillenc.com
or 323-4848, ext. 280.
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>AWOLs and=20
"desertion" for religious reasons (Quaker, this time) are very very=20
common. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In =
1991 a soldier=20
refused to ship out with his unit to Iraq. This was reported by=20
CNN.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>During Vietnam,=20
people refused to register with the Selective Service System (spelled =
D-R-A-F-T)=20
and many of them went to Canada.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>It =
is easier to=20
understand why draftees refuse to "go". In today's All Volunteer =
Army, I=20
simply cannot understand this refusal to "go". I am certain that =
they=20
understood what was ahead of them when they raised their hand and took =
the=20
oath. They had to have realized that the Army is alot more than =
sitting=20
back and collecting a paycheck twice a month.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I =
have absolutely=20
no sympathy for an enlistee that refuses to go, based on his/her =
religious=20
convictions. His/Her religious convistions didn't keep him/her =
from=20
enlisting.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>What ever=20
happened to the old saying, "Serving Proudly"?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I =
consider these=20
people to be a personal slap in the faced of all those who went before=20
them.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Take=20
care,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Tom =
Hansen</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>SFC, U.S. Army=20
(Retired)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Not =
On The=20
Palouse, Not Ever</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004><FONT color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D908301323-22022004>
<P><FONT size=3D2> A good friend will come and bail you out of =
jail. =20
But, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was=20
fun!"</FONT></P></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
vision2020-admin@moscow.com=20
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Tim=20
Lohrmann<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 22, 2004 1:03 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Quaker GI flees =
Army=20
Unit<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Visioners, </DIV>
<DIV> The first real desertion I've seen =
reported=20
since the Iraqi invasion started.</DIV>
<DIV> I understand there are plenty of AWOL's =
though.=20
</DIV>
<DIV> TL<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=3Dmilitary&S=
tory=3D6185924">http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=3Dmilita=
ry&Story=3D<SPAN></SPAN>6185924</A></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D-4><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D-2>Published on: =
2004-02-19</FONT><BR><FONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D-2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D+1><B>Quaker deserts =
as unit=20
deploys<BR></B></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D-1><B>By Julia=20
Oliver</B></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D-1><B>Staff=20
writer<BR><BR><BR></B></FONT><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D-2>Contributed=20
photo<BR></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D-1><B>Jeremy Hinzman=20
fled to Canada with his wife, Nga Nguyen, and their son, Liam, in=20
January.</B></FONT><BR><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D-4></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D-1>Jeremy Hinzman said he could =
barely stomach=20
chanting "kill we will" during basic training and, as a Quaker, he =
didn't=20
want to shoot anybody. But it was the thought of serving U.S. =
interests in=20
Iraq that made the 82nd Airborne Division specialist flee to Canada =
last=20
month.<BR><BR>"I would have felt no different than a private in the =
German=20
Army during World War II," he said by phone from Toronto, where he =
is=20
seeking refugee status.<BR>Hinzman, 25, who was a member of the 2nd=20
Battalion of the 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, is subject to=20
prosecution as a deserter if he is caught within U.S. =
borders.<BR><BR>His=20
name will go on a national database that law enforcement officers =
can=20
access, said Sgt. Pam Smith, a spokeswoman for the 82nd Airborne. He =
can be=20
arrested, but the Army won't go looking for him, she said.<BR>"We =
don't have=20
time to go and track down people who go AWOL," she said. "We're =
fighting a=20
war."<BR><BR>Hinzman, who grew up in Ra! pid City, S.D., joined the =
Army in=20
January 2001. The socialist structure of the military appealed to =
him, he=20
said. He liked the subsidized housing and groceries and, at the end =
of his=20
service, the money for college.<BR>"It seemed like a good financial=20
decision," he said. And, he said, "I had a romantic vision of what =
the Army=20
was."<BR><BR>But from the beginning, basic training bothered him. He =
said he=20
was horrified by the chanting about blood and killing during =
marches, by the=20
shooting at targets without faces and by what he called the =
dehumanization=20
of the enemy.<BR>"It's like watching some kind of scary movie, =
except I was=20
in it," he said. "People would just walk around saying things like, =
'Oh, I=20
want to kill somebody.'"<BR><BR>He felt that the prospect of killing =
should=20
be taken more seriously and that soldiers should not talk about =
death in=20
such a cavalier way, he said.<BR>In August 2002, Hinzman turned in =
his first=20
application to be a conscientious objector. He wanted to fulfill! =
his=20
service obligation, he said, but he didn't want to participate in =
combat. He=20
wrote a six-page explanation of his beliefs, but the Army told him =
it was=20
lost.<BR><BR>"I was informed three months later that it was never =
received,"=20
he said. Last fall, while doing clerical work, he was given a file =
that=20
included that application.<BR>By the time Hinzman applied again at =
the end=20
of October, his unit was on track to go to Afghanistan. He deployed =
in=20
December, and the application was pending.<BR><BR>"I didn't mind =
being=20
deployed. I just didn't want to shoot anybody," he said.<BR>Not =
allowed to=20
go on patrol, he worked as a dishwasher, often 15 hours a day and, =
for the=20
first few months, without a day off. He said his unit didn't get =
into any=20
major combat.<BR><BR><FONT face=3DArial><B>Application=20
denied<BR><BR></B></FONT>While he was in Afghanistan, his =
application for=20
conscientious objector status was evaluated and denied, he said. =
Hinzman=20
said he thinks one question - Would he defend h! is unit if =
attacked? -=20
destroyed his chances. He said he answered yes, reasoning that he =
had no=20
choice if he was forced to carry a gun.<BR><BR>"I was a little bit =
too=20
honest, I guess," he said.<BR>In July, he returned to Fayetteville, =
and to=20
his wife, Nga Nguyen, and their 14-month-old son, Liam.<BR>"My son, =
of=20
course, was a little bit shy about seeing me, but that went away =
after a few=20
hours," he said.<BR><BR>He and Nguyen figured it was only a matter =
of time=20
before his unit would go to Iraq. He said he felt the war there was =
unjust=20
and was being fought over oil interests.<BR>"Had we, say, gone to =
war with=20
North Korea or someone that was an imminent threat, I would have =
gone along=20
with it," he said. "I signed up to defend our country, not be a pawn =
in some=20
sort of political ideology."<BR>He began to think about his options. =
And=20
about what he might have to do if he went to Iraq.<BR><BR>On Dec. =
20,=20
Hinzman found out that his unit would be deployed. And on Jan. 2, he =
packed=20
his famil! y into his car for the 18-hour drive to Canada. The three =
left at=20
night, on the Friday of a four-day weekend. Hinzman's absence wasn't =
noticed=20
until that Monday; he wasn't declared AWOL until the following=20
day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D-1><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial><B>Support=20
network<BR><BR></B></FONT>Through his philosophical objections to =
the Army,=20
Hinzman has received much support from Quakers in Fayetteville and =
Toronto.=20
He has always been interested in Buddhism, he said, but joined the =
Friends=20
Meeting after he moved to Fayetteville and couldn't find a place to =
worship=20
in the Buddhist faith.<BR>"The Quaker's mode of worship was closest =
to=20
meditation because it's silent," he said. In Toronto, the Quakers =
took=20
Hinzman and his family in while they looked for an apartment, he=20
said.<BR><BR>Ann Ashford, recording clerk at the Fayetteville =
Friends=20
Meeting, said Hinzman and his wife were faithful attendees of the =
meetings.=20
She said the community supports Hinzman, but no one at the meeting =
knew he=20
was planning to desert.<BR>"We're all very concerned about him," she =
said.<BR><BR>Ashford said Hinzman spoke with Chuck Fager, executive =
director=20
of the Quaker House, a related organization that counsels soldiers =
who are=20
seeking discharge from the military. Fager could not be reached =
Wednesday=20
but has said in an e-mail that calls to the organization's hot line =
from=20
service members and their families last year reached a record total =
of=20
6,187, up by 50 percent from the year before.<BR><BR>According to =
the=20
Toronto Globe and Mail, Hinzman is believed to be the first U.S. =
soldier=20
filing for refugee status in Canada for refusing duty in Iraq. =
During the=20
Vietnam War, an estimated 30,000 Americans sought refuge in Canada =
to avoid=20
compulsory military service.<BR><BR>Hinzman's chances of receiving =
refugee=20
status are statistically slim: According to Canada's Immigration and =
Refugee=20
Board, none of the 268 American applicants last year was accepted. =
But=20
people who are denied refugee status are not automatically deported; =
they=20
may be granted permission to stay in Canada under other provisions, =
said=20
Charles Hawkins, a spokesman for the board.<BR><BR>Hinzman knows =
that the=20
decisio! n will take awhile.<BR>"It's a big drawn-out process," he=20
said.<BR>He said that the hardest part has been leaving the people =
in his=20
unit, which is still in Iraq.<BR><BR>"I didn't do this out of =
animosity=20
toward them," he said, "but toward the situation we were =
in."<BR><BR>Staff=20
writer Julia Oliver can be reached at</FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#417a60=20
size=3D-1><B> oliverj@fayettevillenc.com</B></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D-1> or 323-4848, ext. 280.</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
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