[Vision2020] Voting and Protesting: History's Lessons?
DonovArn@aol.com
DonovArn@aol.com
Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:43:43 EST
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Ted,
It is rare that we disagree. However, on this issue we do, and here is why.
The US Constitution states that each state can choose their Electors in any way
they choose. The people of Florida, voted for Kathleen Harris. They voted for
the members of the Florida State Legislature, which comprise of a heavy
Republican majority, even now, and they voted for Jeb Bush for Governor.
That was not an error. They have had several elections to fix, or replace,
these office holders. It doesn't matter if the vote is 99% to 1% for Gore. The
State Legislature can choose whatever Electors they want however they want.
They can even do it with a coin toss or an apple bobbing contest if they choose
that method.
The popular vote has no meaning whatsoever. I don't like it. But the fact
remains that people are just indirect determiners of selecting the President. We
vote for state legislatures, the state legislatures determine how the electors
are choosen, the electors vote for the President. I would prefer a direct
popular vote and only use the Electoral College as a back up if the election was,
say less than a 50,000 vote difference.
I do agree with you however, that the laws are wrong and that there is much
corruption in the system. But another thing you should know is that money and
the media determines the entire election process anyway.
I also appreciate all your time and research on the facts of the case and
know you spent a great of time and energy researching them. I have no doubt all
your findings are all true.
Respectfully,
Donovan J Arnold
In a message dated 2/11/2004 12:25:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Aldoussoma@aol.com writes:
Donovan:
Do not blame Bush's win in Florida on voter error! This is a horrendous
distortion of what happened. Of course voters made mistakes, but consider that
thousands of Florida voters did vote correctly, or attempted to vote, but their
votes were not counted due to machine malfunction, or voters were denied the
right to vote from an illegal voter purge list enacted by the State of Florida
under Katherine Harris, that purged legitimate voters from the voting rolls.
Guess which counties had the highest machine error rate? Counties with a high
percentage of Black voters, which just happened to be the poorer counties who
could not afford to update or maintain their voting machines. Such an
unfortunate "accident." Guess which minority group was heavily represented in the
illegal voter purge list? Yes, correct Mr. Donovan, Black voters it is! And
let's not forget the felonious absentee ballet application tampering by
Republican operatives in two Florida counties, Martin and Seminole. And then no
quick summary of the fraud in Florida 2000 is complete unless we give honorable
mention to Republican Congressman Tom Delay's mob of Washington Republican
staffers flown in to disrupt, with fist pounding yelling harassment INSIDE THE
BUILDING, the court ordered recount of votes in Miami-Dade County.
Amazing that last week in Moscow protesters were BLOCKED from entering a
building where a bunch of deluded fundamentalist sexist gay bashers were posing as
serious intellectuals, misleading those who were unfortunate enough to take
them seriously. Yet in Gore v. Bush 2000 in Florida protesters were ALLOWED to
enter a building to disrupt a court ordered recount of votes. I guess the
lesson is that fundamentalist sexist gay bashers are due more police protection
than civil servants trying to carry out court ordered duties involving the
heart of our democracy.
It appears we have not learned from history as we head into another national
election with voting systems in the US still not up to the standards required
to prevent high error rates, fraud, and guarantee complete access to all legal
voters, etc.
Computerized touch screen voting with no paper trail? Continued potential
for electoral tampering and fraud, here in the greatest democracy in the world?
Ted Moffett
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<DIV>
<DIV>Ted,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is rare that we disagree. However, on this issue we do, and her=
e is why. The US Constitution states that each state can choose their Electo=
rs in any way they choose. The people of Florida, voted for Kathleen Ha=
rris. They voted for the members of the Florida State Legislature, whic=
h comprise of a heavy Republican majority, even now, and they voted for=
Jeb Bush for Governor. </DIV>
<DIV>That was not an error. They have had several elections to fix, or repla=
ce, these office holders. It doesn't matter if the vote is 99% to 1% for Gor=
e. The State Legislature can choose whatever Electors they want however they=
want. They can even do it with a coin toss or an apple bobbing contest if t=
hey choose that method. </DIV>
<DIV>The popular vote has no meaning whatsoever. I don't like it. But the fa=
ct remains that people are just indirect determiners of selecting the Presid=
ent. We vote for state legislatures, the state legislatures determine h=
ow the electors are choosen, the electors vote for the President. I wou=
ld prefer a direct popular vote and only use the Electoral College as a back=
up if the election was, say less than a 50,000 vote difference.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I do agree with you however, that the laws are wrong and that there is=20=
much corruption in the system. But another thing you should know is that mon=
ey and the media determines the entire election process anyway.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I also appreciate all your time and research on the facts of the case a=
nd know you spent a great of time and energy researching them. I have no dou=
bt all your findings are all true.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Respectfully,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J Arnold</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 2/11/2004 12:25:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, Aldouss=
oma@aol.com writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue=20=
2px solid"><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2 PTSIZE=3D"10">Donovan: <BR><BR>=
Do not blame Bush's win in Florida on voter error! This is a horrendou=
s distortion of what happened. Of course voters made mistakes, but con=
sider that thousands of Florida voters did vote correctly, or attempted to v=
ote, but their votes were not counted due to machine malfunction, or voters=20=
were denied the right to vote from an illegal voter purge list enacted by th=
e State of Florida under Katherine Harris, that purged legitimate voters fro=
m the voting rolls. Guess which counties had the highest machine error=
rate? Counties with a high percentage of Black voters, which just hap=
pened to be the poorer counties who could not afford to update or maintain t=
heir voting machines. Such an unfortunate "accident." Guess whic=
h minority group was heavily represented in the illegal voter purge list? &n=
bsp;Yes, correct Mr. Donovan, Black voters it is! And let's not forget=
the felonious absentee ballet application tampering by Republican operative=
s in two Florida counties, Martin and Seminole. And then no quick summ=
ary of the fraud in Florida 2000 is complete unless we give honorable mentio=
n to Republican Congressman Tom Delay's mob of Washington Republican staffer=
s flown in to disrupt, with fist pounding yelling harassment INSIDE THE BUIL=
DING, the court ordered recount of votes in Miami-Dade County. <BR><BR>Amazi=
ng that last week in Moscow protesters were BLOCKED from entering a building=
where a bunch of deluded fundamentalist sexist gay bashers were posing as s=
erious intellectuals, misleading those who were unfortunate enough to take t=
hem seriously. Yet in Gore v. Bush 2000 in Florida protesters were ALL=
OWED to enter a building to disrupt a court ordered recount of votes. =
I guess the lesson is that fundamentalist sexist gay bashers are due more po=
lice protection than civil servants trying to carry out court ordered duties=
involving the heart of our democracy. <BR><BR>It appears we have not learne=
d from history as we head into another national election with voting systems=
in the US still not up to the standards required to prevent high error rate=
s, fraud, and guarantee complete access to all legal voters, etc. <BR><BR>Co=
mputerized touch screen voting with no paper trail? Continued potentia=
l for electoral tampering and fraud, here in the greatest democracy in the w=
orld? <BR><BR>Ted Moffett</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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