[Vision2020] My Concerns about "Not on the Palouse Not Ever"

[Andreas Schou]

To an extent, I agree with you, but I think your concerns are unfounded.

There should be universal freedom of conscience, and that freedom of conscience should encompass both the world's great religious traditions and idiosyncratic personal beliefs. All religious practices that harm no one should be not simply tolerated, but welcomed. Despite this, there are distinct boundaries to one's freedom of religion.

First: your right to swing your fist stops at the end of my nose. Religious rights end at the point at which they begin to infringe on my own rights, both religious and otherwise. Members of Christ Church cross this line when they advocate stoning for gays, blasphemers, and disobedient children: their political agenda threatens my very right to exist.

Second: religious doctrines possess no special right not to be disagreed with. When one's beliefs enter the public square, whether it be in the form of a book defending slavery, a public defender that advocates stoning, or a public school board member that believes in the abolition of public schools, they are no longer unassailable private principles: they are the subject of debate. Christ Churchers seem shocked -- just shocked! -- that this is the case, but it has, in fact, always been the case.

So, to answer your question: no, the Catholic Church isn't next. They admit my right to exist, admit a place for me in American politics, and tolerate, if not welcome, my difference in opinion. There is a categorical difference between that and Christ Church, which would disenfranchise and execute me -- and I'm surprised that you can't see it.

-- ACS

--- Original Message -----
From: DonovArn@aol.com
Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:26 pm
Subject: [Vision2020] My Concerns about "Not on the Palouse Not Ever"

> Tom and others,
> 
> I do agree that it is important to stand up against 
> discrimination. I also 
> agree with what you are "trying" to do, or your "intentions". 
> However, I have 
> some concerns.
> 
> First, I want to say that I have been a legal resident of Moscow, 
> ID, all but 
> about 8 years of my life. I was born here, my Mother was born 
> here, my Uncle, 
> Aunts, Sisters, a niece, and dozens of cousins and other relatives 
> have all 
> been born somewhere around the Palouse or lived here most their 
> life. My 
> Grandfather, and Great-grandparents are buried here in Moscow, and 
> my ancestors take 
> up huge plots in Moscow, Pullman, and even Spokane cemeteries. 
> 
> My Family has also been very active in the community. Three of my 
> close 
> Family members have been members of the Chamber of Commerce, 
> including two that 
> were Chair of the Board at some time or another. My Grandfather, 
> although a 
> business man, did lots of community work including the 
> establishment of Stepping 
> Stones, which is now Miles Stones. Three of my family members have 
> or do teach 
> for the University of Idaho in subjects of Accounting, 
> Engineering, and 
> English. I have no clue how many members of my Family are 
> graduates or former 
> students of UI, but I do know that it is over a dozen over the 
> last 50 years. And 
> many of you here in the community know my Family's involvement in 
> Business in the 
> community and I am grateful for their support over the last 60 years.
> 
> The reason that I say these things is because I want to point out 
> that I am 
> not some college kid that just got here. I am a member of this 
> community and my 
> family is directly effected by the prosperity or any damage 
> brought to Moscow.
> 
> This is why I am concerned by "Not on the Palouse, Not Ever". I am 
> Catholic. 
> And many of the things that you attack Christ Church for also 
> directly attack 
> me, my family, friends, neighbors, and other long upstanding 
> members of our 
> community today and in Moscow's Past. This is cause for concern. I 
> am not 
> Catholic because I agree with all the teachings and believes 
> taught by the Church, 
> which change with each Pope anyway. I am not Catholic because I 
> agree that we 
> should not use Birth Control, or because Abortion is a sin, or 
> Homosexuality is 
> Immoral or Unnatural. I am a Catholic because my Mom is a 
> Catholic, Her Mom 
> was a Catholic, and Her Mom, and Her Mom, all the way back as far 
> as we know. I 
> am also Catholic because I agree with the basic tenants of the 
> Church. It is 
> not by any means perfect, and I hardly know any single person that 
> is Catholic 
> that agrees with everything it teaches, not even Priests and Nuns. 
> Truth be 
> told, there are probably 100 other churches that are more in line 
> with my 
> social beliefs. But being Catholic is in my Blood, it is what I 
> know and what I 
> have always known. If I was not Catholic, I would not be who I am 
> today, or be 
> around today because of what the Church has done in past 
> generations for my 
> Family. I stick with the Catholic Church regardless of how silly, 
> out of date, 
> chauvinistic, homophobic, racist, or plain outright insane 
> doctrines the current 
> Pope at the time is espousing. 
> 
> The reason I state this is for three major reasons. 
> 
> 1) I believe that religion and matters of faith, or personal 
> spiritual 
> beliefs, are deeply sensitive and personal issues. People's 
> passions run very high. 
> I feel you are trying to use "logic" to address issues of faith. 
> If we used 
> "logic" faith would not exist. You cannot prove or disprove God's 
> existence So 
> it is illogical to even acknowledge God anyway other than as 
> personal security 
> in self determination of everlasting life. Faith is a matter of 
> pure emotion 
> and personal experiences in life. You cannot change those with 
> words of logic. 
> No matter how much logic you use, I will never change faiths. I 
> don't care 
> what you, or anybody else says, does or proves with science, not 
> even the Pope, I 
> am, and always will be, Catholic.
> I can only conclude that everyone else feels the SAME way about 
> their faith 
> or religious ideology. 
> 
> 2) Who is next? I mean most major religions preach or have a 
> doctrine of some 
> type of social injustice to one group of people. It does not mean 
> that the 
> members of that church feel the truthfulness of the doctrine in 
> the same way but 
> nonetheless  they still exist in the community. Catholics, Morons, 
> Muslims, 
> Protestants, Jews, all exist in our community for the purposes of 
> spreading 
> their doctrines and faith in God. All of them have some form of 
> archaic doctrine 
> which is slanted against Women, Gays, and others, are you going to 
> target 
> these churches too, if not, please explain the difference and why?
> 
> 3) What is your goal(s)? What do you hope to accomplish? How is 
> what you are 
> doing going to accomplish this goal(s)?
> I don't understand. Are you hoping to use logic and make people 
> say to 
> themselves "Gee, what a logical point, I am not going to follow 
> Christ Church 
> anymore." Are you hoping that people's faith in the church will go 
> away because 
> others attack it? That people will say, "I don't want to belong to 
> a church when 
> my faith is challenged". I think this only reinforces it and makes 
> the members 
> more likely to be tight and close. Are you hoping to prevent new 
> members from 
> joining Christ Church? This might work, unless your advertising of 
> it attracts 
> new members more quickly than your ability to persuade people not 
> to follow 
> it. If advertising didn't work, not many business would use it. 
> Every cult in 
> America has gone up in membership when it hit the news, not down. 
> How do you 
> plan to counter this fact? Do you have any evidence that your 
> efforts are 
> hurting the church in numbers or finances?
> 
> My point is this: I don't like it at all when religions or others 
> do things 
> to preach hatred or discrimination against others in society. I 
> think it wrong. 
> I have fought against the Aryan Nations in Hayden when I lived 
> there for 8 
> years. I reported the members of the UI Student Government when 
> they burnt the 
> Gay/Straight Alliance Flag when I was in the student Senate. I was 
> Vice 
> President of the Human Equality Club at North Idaho College, and a 
> member of 
> Northwest Coalition Against Malicious Harassment that had a great 
> deal to with the 
> hiring of Morris Dees and the lawsuit that brought down the Aryan 
> Nation Compound 
> that was one mile, by flight of bird, behind my house. 
> 
> I think their are better ways of going against Christ Church that 
> are more 
> effective. I would do what we did. We raised money by taking 
> pledges of members 
> of the community for every mile that the Aryan Nations marched 
> downtown. We 
> than used the money to advance Human Rights in the area. One year 
> alone we made 
> $45,000. We also held competing events with the Aryan Nations. 
> That is, 
> whenever they had an event, we had a human rights event at the 
> same time in another 
> location out of view of theirs. We would always match the crowds 
> they got.
> I would do the same thing. Have Human Rights events at the same 
> time as them. 
> If they put a coffee stand and give out Chocolate Chip cookies, 
> set up a 
> Coffee Stand too, and give out three kinds of cookies. For money, 
> I would take 
> pledges from the community to give money for every minute that Mr. 
> Wilson talks, 
> then use that money to promote something positive, like money to 
> save the 
> homeless shelter.
> 
> Otherwise, I must state honestly, as a Liberal, and someone whose 
> candidacy 
> for Student Government was heavy backed by the UI Socialist Party 
> Club, I think 
> you are doing more harm to the community than helping it and 
> illustrating the 
> other side of discrimination and intolerance. I would like to ask 
> you to 
> please stop attacking religion. Challenging ideas is GREAT. 
> Attacking people for 
> their faith, no matter how wrong, twisted, or misdirected, I think 
> is unfair 
> and undemocratic.
> 
> I don't suppose that this email will make me very popular with 
> members of Not 
> on the Palouse or Christ Church. Nonetheless, I think it is 
> important to 
> express my concern of two small but growing and opposing factions 
> that are 
> dividing our community. I really don't like to see it and it makes 
> me very sad raises 
> concerns.
> 
> Thank You and Take Care,
> 
> Donovan J Arnold
>