[Vision2020] My Concerns about "Not on the Palouse Not Ever"

DonovArn@aol.com DonovArn@aol.com
Thu, 5 Feb 2004 01:26:14 EST


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Tom and others,

I do agree that it is important to stand up against discrimination. I also 
agree with what you are "trying" to do, or your "intentions". However, I have 
some concerns.

First, I want to say that I have been a legal resident of Moscow, ID, all but 
about 8 years of my life. I was born here, my Mother was born here, my Uncle, 
Aunts, Sisters, a niece, and dozens of cousins and other relatives have all 
been born somewhere around the Palouse or lived here most their life. My 
Grandfather, and Great-grandparents are buried here in Moscow, and my ancestors take 
up huge plots in Moscow, Pullman, and even Spokane cemeteries. 

My Family has also been very active in the community. Three of my close 
Family members have been members of the Chamber of Commerce, including two that 
were Chair of the Board at some time or another. My Grandfather, although a 
business man, did lots of community work including the establishment of Stepping 
Stones, which is now Miles Stones. Three of my family members have or do teach 
for the University of Idaho in subjects of Accounting, Engineering, and 
English. I have no clue how many members of my Family are graduates or former 
students of UI, but I do know that it is over a dozen over the last 50 years. And 
many of you here in the community know my Family's involvement in Business in the 
community and I am grateful for their support over the last 60 years.

The reason that I say these things is because I want to point out that I am 
not some college kid that just got here. I am a member of this community and my 
family is directly effected by the prosperity or any damage brought to Moscow.

This is why I am concerned by "Not on the Palouse, Not Ever". I am Catholic. 
And many of the things that you attack Christ Church for also directly attack 
me, my family, friends, neighbors, and other long upstanding members of our 
community today and in Moscow's Past. This is cause for concern. I am not 
Catholic because I agree with all the teachings and believes taught by the Church, 
which change with each Pope anyway. I am not Catholic because I agree that we 
should not use Birth Control, or because Abortion is a sin, or Homosexuality is 
Immoral or Unnatural. I am a Catholic because my Mom is a Catholic, Her Mom 
was a Catholic, and Her Mom, and Her Mom, all the way back as far as we know. I 
am also Catholic because I agree with the basic tenants of the Church. It is 
not by any means perfect, and I hardly know any single person that is Catholic 
that agrees with everything it teaches, not even Priests and Nuns. Truth be 
told, there are probably 100 other churches that are more in line with my 
social beliefs. But being Catholic is in my Blood, it is what I know and what I 
have always known. If I was not Catholic, I would not be who I am today, or be 
around today because of what the Church has done in past generations for my 
Family. I stick with the Catholic Church regardless of how silly, out of date, 
chauvinistic, homophobic, racist, or plain outright insane doctrines the current 
Pope at the time is espousing. 

The reason I state this is for three major reasons. 

1) I believe that religion and matters of faith, or personal spiritual 
beliefs, are deeply sensitive and personal issues. People's passions run very high. 
I feel you are trying to use "logic" to address issues of faith. If we used 
"logic" faith would not exist. You cannot prove or disprove God's existence So 
it is illogical to even acknowledge God anyway other than as personal security 
in self determination of everlasting life. Faith is a matter of pure emotion 
and personal experiences in life. You cannot change those with words of logic. 
No matter how much logic you use, I will never change faiths. I don't care 
what you, or anybody else says, does or proves with science, not even the Pope, I 
am, and always will be, Catholic.
I can only conclude that everyone else feels the SAME way about their faith 
or religious ideology. 

2) Who is next? I mean most major religions preach or have a doctrine of some 
type of social injustice to one group of people. It does not mean that the 
members of that church feel the truthfulness of the doctrine in the same way but 
nonetheless  they still exist in the community. Catholics, Morons, Muslims, 
Protestants, Jews, all exist in our community for the purposes of spreading 
their doctrines and faith in God. All of them have some form of archaic doctrine 
which is slanted against Women, Gays, and others, are you going to target 
these churches too, if not, please explain the difference and why?

3) What is your goal(s)? What do you hope to accomplish? How is what you are 
doing going to accomplish this goal(s)?
I don't understand. Are you hoping to use logic and make people say to 
themselves "Gee, what a logical point, I am not going to follow Christ Church 
anymore." Are you hoping that people's faith in the church will go away because 
others attack it? That people will say, "I don't want to belong to a church when 
my faith is challenged". I think this only reinforces it and makes the members 
more likely to be tight and close. Are you hoping to prevent new members from 
joining Christ Church? This might work, unless your advertising of it attracts 
new members more quickly than your ability to persuade people not to follow 
it. If advertising didn't work, not many business would use it. Every cult in 
America has gone up in membership when it hit the news, not down. How do you 
plan to counter this fact? Do you have any evidence that your efforts are 
hurting the church in numbers or finances?

My point is this: I don't like it at all when religions or others do things 
to preach hatred or discrimination against others in society. I think it wrong. 
I have fought against the Aryan Nations in Hayden when I lived there for 8 
years. I reported the members of the UI Student Government when they burnt the 
Gay/Straight Alliance Flag when I was in the student Senate. I was Vice 
President of the Human Equality Club at North Idaho College, and a member of 
Northwest Coalition Against Malicious Harassment that had a great deal to with the 
hiring of Morris Dees and the lawsuit that brought down the Aryan Nation Compound 
that was one mile, by flight of bird, behind my house. 

I think their are better ways of going against Christ Church that are more 
effective. I would do what we did. We raised money by taking pledges of members 
of the community for every mile that the Aryan Nations marched downtown. We 
than used the money to advance Human Rights in the area. One year alone we made 
$45,000. We also held competing events with the Aryan Nations. That is, 
whenever they had an event, we had a human rights event at the same time in another 
location out of view of theirs. We would always match the crowds they got.
I would do the same thing. Have Human Rights events at the same time as them. 
If they put a coffee stand and give out Chocolate Chip cookies, set up a 
Coffee Stand too, and give out three kinds of cookies. For money, I would take 
pledges from the community to give money for every minute that Mr. Wilson talks, 
then use that money to promote something positive, like money to save the 
homeless shelter.

Otherwise, I must state honestly, as a Liberal, and someone whose candidacy 
for Student Government was heavy backed by the UI Socialist Party Club, I think 
you are doing more harm to the community than helping it and illustrating the 
other side of discrimination and intolerance. I would like to ask you to 
please stop attacking religion. Challenging ideas is GREAT. Attacking people for 
their faith, no matter how wrong, twisted, or misdirected, I think is unfair 
and undemocratic.

I don't suppose that this email will make me very popular with members of Not 
on the Palouse or Christ Church. Nonetheless, I think it is important to 
express my concern of two small but growing and opposing factions that are 
dividing our community. I really don't like to see it and it makes me very sad raises 
concerns.

Thank You and Take Care,

Donovan J Arnold

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<DIV>Tom and others,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I do agree that it is important to stand up against discrimination. I a=
lso agree with what you are "trying" to do, or your "intentions". However, I=
 have some concerns.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>First, I want to say that I have been a legal resident of Moscow, ID, a=
ll but about 8 years of my life. I was born here, my Mother was born here, m=
y Uncle, Aunts, Sisters, a niece, and dozens of cousins and other relatives=20=
have all been born somewhere around the Palouse or lived here most their lif=
e. My Grandfather, and Great-grandparents are buried here in Moscow, and my&=
nbsp;ancestors take up huge&nbsp;plots in Moscow, Pullman, and even Spokane=20=
cemeteries. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My Family has also been very active in the community. Three of my close=
 Family members have been members of the Chamber of Commerce, including two=20=
that were Chair of the Board at some time or another. My Grandfather, althou=
gh a business man, did lots of community work including the establishment of=
 Stepping Stones, which is now Miles Stones. Three of my family members have=
 or do teach&nbsp;for the University of Idaho in subjects of Accounting, Eng=
ineering, and English. I have no clue how many members of my Family are grad=
uates or former students of UI, but I do know that it is over a dozen over t=
he last 50 years. And many of you here in the community know my Family's inv=
olvement in Business in the&nbsp;community and I am grateful for their suppo=
rt over the last 60 years.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The reason that I say these things is because I want to point out that=20=
I am not some college kid that just got here. I am a member of this communit=
y and&nbsp;my family is&nbsp;directly effected by the&nbsp;prosperity or&nbs=
p;any damage brought&nbsp;to Moscow.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>This is why I am concerned by "Not on the Palouse, Not Ever". I am Cath=
olic. And many of the things that you attack Christ Church for also directly=
 attack me, my family, friends, neighbors, and&nbsp;other long upstanding&nb=
sp;members of our community today&nbsp;and in&nbsp;Moscow's Past. This is ca=
use for concern. I am not Catholic because I agree with all the teachings an=
d believes taught by the Church, which change with each Pope anyway. I am no=
t Catholic because I agree that we should not use Birth Control, or because=20=
Abortion is a sin, or Homosexuality is Immoral or Unnatural. I am a Catholic=
 because my Mom is a Catholic, Her Mom was a Catholic, and Her Mom, and Her=20=
Mom, all the way back as far as we know. I am also Catholic because I agree=20=
with the basic tenants of the Church. It is not by any means perfect, and I=20=
hardly know any single person that is Catholic that agrees with everything i=
t teaches, not even Priests and Nuns.&nbsp;Truth be told, there are probably=
 100 other churches that are more in&nbsp;line with my social&nbsp;beliefs.=20=
But being Catholic is in my Blood, it is what I know and what I have always=20=
known. If I was not Catholic, I would not be who I am today, or be around to=
day because of what the Church has done in past generations for my Family. I=
 stick with the Catholic Church regardless of how silly, out of date, chauvi=
nistic, homophobic, racist, or plain outright insane doctrines&nbsp;the curr=
ent Pope at the time is espousing. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The reason I state this is for three major reasons. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>1) I believe that religion and matters of faith, or personal spiritual=20=
beliefs, are deeply sensitive and personal issues. People's passions run ver=
y high. I feel you are trying to use "logic" to address issues of faith. If=20=
we used "logic" faith would not exist. You cannot prove or disprove God's ex=
istence So it is illogical to even acknowledge God anyway other than as pers=
onal security in self determination of everlasting life. Faith is a matter o=
f pure emotion and personal experiences in life. You cannot change those wit=
h words of logic. No matter how much logic you use, I will never change fait=
hs. I don't care what you, or anybody else says, does or proves with science=
, not even the Pope, I am, and always will be,&nbsp;Catholic.</DIV>
<DIV>I can only conclude that everyone else feels the SAME way about their f=
aith or religious ideology. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>2) Who is next? I mean&nbsp;most major religions preach or have a doctr=
ine of&nbsp;some type of social injustice to one group of people. It does no=
t mean that the members of that church feel the truthfulness of the doctrine=
 in the same way but nonetheless &nbsp;they still exist in&nbsp;the communit=
y. Catholics, Morons, Muslims, Protestants, Jews, all exist in our community=
 for the purposes of spreading their doctrines and faith in God. All of them=
 have some form of archaic doctrine which is slanted against Women, Gays, an=
d others, are you going to target these churches&nbsp;too, if not, please ex=
plain the difference and why?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>3) What is your goal(s)? What do you hope to accomplish? How is what yo=
u are doing going to accomplish this goal(s)?</DIV>
<DIV>I don't understand. Are you hoping to use logic and make people say to=20=
themselves "Gee, what a logical point, I am not going to follow Christ Churc=
h anymore." Are you hoping that people's faith in the church will go away be=
cause others attack it? That people will say, "I don't want to belong to a c=
hurch when my faith is challenged". I think this only reinforces it and make=
s the members more likely to be tight and close. Are you hoping to prevent n=
ew members from joining Christ Church? This might work, unless your advertis=
ing of it attracts new members more quickly than your ability to&nbsp;persua=
de people not to follow it. If advertising didn't work, not many business wo=
uld use it. Every cult in&nbsp;America has gone up in membership when it hit=
 the news, not down.&nbsp;How do you plan to counter this fact? Do you have=20=
any evidence that your efforts are hurting the church in numbers or finances=
?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My point is this: I don't like it at all when religions or others do th=
ings to preach hatred or discrimination against others in society. I think i=
t wrong. I have fought against the Aryan Nations in Hayden when I lived ther=
e for 8 years. I reported the members of the UI Student Government when they=
 burnt the Gay/Straight Alliance Flag when I was in the student Senate. I wa=
s Vice President of the Human Equality Club at North Idaho College, and a me=
mber of Northwest Coalition Against Malicious Harassment that had a great de=
al to with the hiring of Morris Dees and the lawsuit that brought down the A=
ryan Nation Compound that was one mile, by flight of bird, behind my house.=20=
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I think their are better ways of going against Christ Church that are m=
ore effective. I would do what we did. We raised money by taking pledges of=20=
members of the community for every mile that the Aryan Nations marched downt=
own. We than used the money&nbsp;to advance&nbsp;Human Rights&nbsp;in the ar=
ea. One year alone we made $45,000. We also held competing events with the A=
ryan Nations. That is, whenever they had an event, we had a human rights eve=
nt at the same&nbsp;time in another location out of view of theirs. We would=
 always match the crowds they got.</DIV>
<DIV>I would&nbsp;do the&nbsp;same thing. Have Human Rights events at the sa=
me time as them. If they put a coffee stand and give out Chocolate Chip cook=
ies, set up a Coffee Stand&nbsp;too, and&nbsp;give out three kinds of cookie=
s. For money, I would take pledges from the community to give money for ever=
y minute that Mr. Wilson talks, then use that money to promote something pos=
itive, like money to save the homeless shelter.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Otherwise, I must state honestly, as a Liberal, and someone whose candi=
dacy for Student Government was heavy backed by the UI Socialist Party Club,=
 I think you are doing more harm to the community than helping it and illust=
rating the other side of discrimination and intolerance. I would like to ask=
 you to please stop attacking religion. Challenging ideas is GREAT. Attackin=
g people for their faith, no matter how wrong, twisted, or misdirected, I th=
ink is unfair and undemocratic.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>I don't suppose that this email will make me very popular with members=20=
of Not on the Palouse or Christ Church. Nonetheless, I think it is important=
 to express my concern of two small but growing and opposing factions&nbsp;t=
hat are dividing our&nbsp;community. I really don't like to see it and&nbsp;=
it makes me very sad raises concerns.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thank You and Take Care,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Donovan J Arnold</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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