[Vision2020] Reading

[Pat Kraut]

OK, call me stupid but I fail to see what George the 1st has to do with
getting rid of Saddam now. Except that it would have been nice if he had
crossed the UN and taken him out back then. We are one step from elections
in Iraq...will it go well...maybe not...BUT it is a chance for Iraq to pull
itself out of the mire. The insurgents don't want to see the elections
succeed and will do all they can to kill and maim all invovled but, just as
in any beginning there will be those who will stand up for liberty. Can you
not see the good that can come from this? Do you live so far to the dark
side that you see no light at all? Once again I ask you if it had been a
democrat with 'the right war at the right time with France and Germany
involved' would you have been happier? Maybe seen the good to come of
sending troops to help?? All those people died or were maimed at the hand of
Saddam with no hope and you cannot seem to understand that at all...why do
you not have any compassion for them in any way? Can you not see the hope
that is there now?? I don't care that George the 1st blew it following the
UN, I don't care that Clinton the coward should have gotten Saddam, I care
about today, NOW. If you understand how the 1st should have taken him out
why are you so failing to see the 2nds leap to really help?
I am trying to understand

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
To: "'Pat Kraut'" <pkraut at moscow.com>; "'vision2020'"
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:04 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Reading


How soon Ms. Kraut forgets George the First.

Remember the Iraq War, Part 1?  Remember when George the First promised the
American citizenry that the war was going to be fought by generals and not
politicians?  That ended up being a lie.

Remember when George the First promised the Kurds that he would support them
in their fight for liberation?  Remember when General Schwartzkopf said that
he was within 24 hours of entering (and liberating) Baghdad?  George the
First failed in his promise to the Kurds and told Schwartzkopf to cool his
heals as he (George the First) arranged for a peace agreement with Saddam.

You are absolutely right, Ms. Kraut.  Thousands and thousands died before
George II "liberated" Iraq.  But alot of that blood is on George the First's
hands.

And now there is American blood involved in this Iraqi civil war in which
George II has volunteered 1,500 more troops.

Well . . . As Country Joe McDonald (of Country Joe and the Fish) once said:

"Well, it's one two three
What are we fighting for?"

Until we learn . . .

Take care of yourselves and each other.

Tom "49er" Hansen

We could learn a lot from crayons: some are sharp, some are pretty, some are
dull, some have weird names, and all are different colors....but they all
exist very nicely in the same box.



-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:45 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Reading

When I have questioned the Palestinians on this site I have had many emails
that tried to explain their actions to me as if there could be some
justification for the behavior. I know about the problem. It is much more
complex than any one story can ever convey. But, I also know that peace as
described by Palistians is not the same as peace described by Israeli terms
or mine. It will take much more than two states to get past the hatred
perpetrated by Palistian mothers among others. Although two states would be
a start I'd be willing to try I wonder if it won't be another
Ireland...always at war.
I am always in amazement of how easily some dismiss the many thousands who
died in Iraq before we got there with no hope of any good to come of it.
Those who were gassed, maimed, raped and living in total fear at the hands
of Saddam's sons with no recourse for help. Yes, many people have died. It
is usually the case in a war but I believe it is for a better cause than
before. There would have been no fewer deaths in Iraq if we had not gone
there with no hope of recourse or help. Why doesn't your compassion go to
those who died before at the hand of Saddam? Why express it all for those
who died just since we went there to help give them some hope? Are you just
so totally mad at Bush that you cannot see a bigger picture? Do you not
understand that we could still be waiting for a very corrupt UN to go offer
some help? Or do you just not care because Bush is a republican...if it had
be a democrat who 'did it the right way, at the right time' you would have
gotten on board with more faith?
It is a complicated, complex world and I am trying to understand.
PK



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