[Vision2020] traffic woes

Donovan Arnold donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 11 Sep 2003 02:48:01 -0700


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<P>Ted,</P>
<P>I agree with you in principle. It would be wonderful is everyone rode a bike and/or walked everywhere to avoid pollution and reduce traffic. My ideal would be to have everyone drive around small electro powered cars with no gas powered engines.</P></DIV>
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<P>My point is that it is not practical or realistic.</P>
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<P>I do not agree that Moscow has increased in population to any huge degree in the last 55 years. Maybe percentage wise it has. But Moscow is not a huge city by any definition. When my mother was born here in 1947 there were 16,000 people living in Moscow. Now there is about 20,000 people. That is only like 4,000 more people. Sure it is a 25% increase, but Moscow is not that big nor will it ever be. </P>
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<P>I do agree that traffic has increased significantly. But not for the reasons that you claim. I don't think it is the 4K people increase as much as other factors. I think it is the roads that are so messed up that keep people on the road longer. If it takes me 15 minutes to go get milk because someone closed off my direct route to the store that use to take me only 10 minutes to get, I am on the road 50% longer. Multiply that by 15,000 people and then you have a traffic problem. Increase the population by 25% gradually over 50 years and most people are not going to notice. </P>
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<P>I also believe that owning a car is necessary for most people in Idaho. So the idea of saying it is cheaper is not true. You have to buy and maintain the car and the bike. </P>
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<P>I think we are also more sensitive about the traffic at the beginning of the school year because we are use to the summer traffic which is much less. You also have to realize that students drive more in the beginning of the year than they do in latter part of the year. In addition, students get lost and don't know where they are going and more students are in Fall semester than the Spring semester. So from Summer to Fall is the biggest sudden jump in traffic.&nbsp;</P>
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<P>I sympathize with your position Ted, and agree. But getting people to get up their cars would be more difficult than getting people to give up their guns, and we know that is not going to happen in the near future. I suggest we either just deal with congestion on the roads or build more roads.</P>
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<P>Donovan J Arnold&nbsp;<BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Ted Moffett" <TED_MOFFETT@HOTMAIL.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: donovanarnold@hotmail.com, rhayes@turbonet.com 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;CC: vision2020@moscow.com 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] traffic woes 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:11:53 +0000 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Donovan et. al. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Umm, are we communicating here? Read what I wrote below again. I 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;included the idea of restructuring Moscow streets as a suggestion 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;for dealing with the traffic problem. I gave a list of possible 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;solutions, of which you addressed only a few. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Your solution is no solution at all if the goal is reducing the 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;number of vehicles on Moscow streets, but rather just a more 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;efficient way of accommodating an increasing number of vehicles. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;There are the problems created by the number of vehicles creating 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;traffic congestion and an environment unfriendly to walking and 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;biking while degrading the aesthetic environment. The pollution 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;issue is also a concern. Pollution could be reduced with electric 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;or hybrid or fuel cell cars, though there would still be the traffic 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;congestion and other negative impacts, though less pollution would 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;reduce that one negative impact on people in high traffic areas. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Biking is not as difficult in Moscow as you make it sound, though 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;now with the increased traffic etc. it is more problematic than it 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;once was. I have used a bike off and on all year round in Moscow 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;with little difficulty, of course not on days with bad weather. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Part of the reason to encourage biking is also the exercise and 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;health gained. It also creates a more friendly community 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;environment to have people riding bikes rather than driving 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;polluting traffic congesting cars. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;I don't think I need to quote statistics to state correctly that 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Moscow has more traffic flow now than it had years ago with 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;thousands of new residents in the city limits. Are you serious 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;about questioning an increase in amount of traffic? Do you really 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;think Moscow has not seen an increase in traffic in the past 5, 10 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;or 20 years? 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Anyways, read my last paragraph below, where I suggest a traffic 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;plan is not the solution, but rather a change in the mindset of 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;people, a change I highly doubt will happen. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Ted 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;From: "Ted Moffett" <TED_MOFFETT@HOTMAIL.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;To: donovanarnold@hotmail.com, rhayes@turbonet.com 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;CC: vision2020@moscow.com 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] traffic woes 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:01:47 +0000 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Donovan et. al. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;While you present some interesting ideas on how to improve traffic 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;flow, that fact is that the number of vehicles on Moscow city 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;streets has increased in recent years. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;There are numerous solutions that could be offered: carpooling, 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;improved street layout and management, smaller less polluting 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;motorized vehicles, more biking (a three wheel bike can carry a 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;lot), better bike lanes or walking, or actual restrictions placed 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;upon the number and/or use of vehicles. Some universities in the 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;USA do not allow freshmen living in dorms to come to college with a 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;car! They have such parking and traffic problems etc. that these 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;universities cannot handle allowing freshmen to bring cars to 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;college. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;This one restriction placed upon vehicle use would reduce the 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;traffic problem in Moscow somewhat. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;You can rearrange the landscape all you want to accommodate cars, 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;trucks and SUVs, but this is an approach I think wrong headed from 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the start. Because the bottom line is, if everyone and their 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;uncle insists on using a motorized vehicle to go everywhere inside 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;the city limits of Moscow, we will have problems with traffic and 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;pollution, at least with current internal combustion engines. And 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;as you accommodate to handle more cars, growth will just add more 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;traffic which means more accommodation to handle more vehicles, and 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;then we end up with a city less friendly to biking and walking with 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;a degraded aesthetic environment. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;If the mindset that encourages the use of motorized vehicles at 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;every whim is not addressed, the outcome will not be pretty, no 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;matter what brilliant street planning is offered. This issue boils 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;down to a choice of values and lifestyle about which it is clear 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;there is strong disagreement between the car devotees and those who 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;do not want a city dominated by the demands of motorized vehicles. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;&gt;Ted 
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