[Vision2020] Re: Following the Bible
Jackie Woolf
jfkwoolf2000@yahoo.com
Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:58:33 -0700 (PDT)
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What I don't understand is why you insist on living just in part of the Bible? Jesus came into this world as a man in order to show us just how God wants us to live. Remember the healing of the guard when a deciple cut the guard's ear off - even though that same guard would later help in arresting Jesus?
There are just two great laws we are supposed to follow: Love the Lord God with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your body. The second is like it; Love your neighbor as yourself. Both of these resolve all of your life's problems...when applied properly.
Of course, this does NOT mean love your neighbor in the sence that you "make love" to your neighbor even if they are the same gender as you, or by committing adultry. Showing respect for them is what is being asked. Showing your child respect by disciplining them is also what is being asked of us.
Why you insist on taking things to the radical is beyond me. Just try not only reading the Bible, but understanding it. All of your examples show a true mis-understanding of what is truely being taught.
Thank you.
vision2020-request@moscow.com wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Modern Slavery in the U.S. (Eric Martin)
2. Another thought (Scott Dredge)
3. Another thought (Nate Wilson)
4. questionnaire now available on website (bill london)
5. Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Steve Wells)
6. calling Jim Meyer (Dan Carscallen)
7. U of I pulls the plug on homecoming parody skit (Jack Van Deventer)
8. Jack Hill and citizen empowerment (bill london)
9. Re: Jack Hill and citizen empowerment (Dale Courtney)
10. sojourner's alliance calendar (Debbie Gray)
11. Re: sojourner's alliance calendar (Carl Westberg)
12. RE: Jack Hill and citizen empowerment (Thomas Hansen)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Martin
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Modern Slavery in the U.S.
Before we congratualte ourselves too quickly on having
ended modern day slavery in the U.S., I suggest
looking into the labor utilized to provide at least
some of our orange juice. Doesn't it seem a little
strange that folks in Northern Idaho can purchase a
gallon of O.J. for a buck or two any time of year?
A simple google search will provide lots of info.,
including materials from the Department of Justice
indicating the problems extends far beyond O.J.
And what about the "cheap goods" we pick up at the
store that have been manufactured under forced labor
conditions abroad? I think those products alone
indicate that slavery is alive and well, even in this
country. Why else would Bush II have brought it up
the last time he adressed the nation via television?
Eric
--- Gregory Dickison wrote:
> Dear Rwiza:
>
> I think your question will have to go unanswered. To
> my knowledge, there are no "slavery supporters" on
> this list, or in Moscow. That institution is,
> thankfully, ended in this country.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Gregory C. Dickison
> Lawyer & Counselor at Law
> Post Office Box 8846
> 208 South Main #2
> Moscow, Idaho 83843
> (208) 882-4009
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: katetegeilwe rwiza
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:14 PM
> Subject: [Vision2020] Slavery and War in Iraq
>
>
> It would be interesting to know the stand of the
> "slavery supporters" on the war in Iraq. We are now
> being told that, the major objective for going to
> war was to "free" the people of Iraq. How can you
> support "freeing" people in Iraq, but wish to have
> kept slaves in the USA? Ant this a contradiction?
>
>
>
> Rwiza
>
>
>
>
>
> 486 Taylor Avenue # 3,
> Moscow,
> Idaho 83843,
> USA
> Tel.: 1-208-885-1452
> WebPage: http://www.uidaho.edu/~rwiz2091
>
>
>
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_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________
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--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:06:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Dredge
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Another thought
As I watched in amazement last night as the Cubs
collapsed in the 8th inning of the NLCS, I was
thinking once again about the notorious "Billy Goat
Curse" that has plagued the team since 1945, the last
time the Cubs were in the World Series. My
understanding of the curse is that it was Billy Goat
Sianis who invoked the curse during game 4 of the 1945
World Series after his pet goat, Murphy, was banned
from entering Wrigley Field. Apparently, Sianis stood
out in front of the stadium, shook his fist, and
uttered in his broken English "Never agin will World
Series be played in Wrigley Field."
There has been numerous attempts to lift the curse
over the years and none have been successful. If the
Cubs ever want to return to the World Series, and it's
been 95 years since their last World Series Title, as
much as I love Wrigley Fields...it's painfully obvious
that they should build a new stadium.
-Scott
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:42:31 -0700
From: Nate Wilson
To: vision2020@moscow.com, Scott Dredge
Subject: [Vision2020] Another thought
Is that fan on the third baseline still alive?
NDW
Scott Dredge wrote:
>As I watched in amazement last night as the Cubs
>collapsed in the 8th inning of the NLCS, I was
>thinking once again about the notorious "Billy Goat
>Curse" that has plagued the team since 1945, the last
>time the Cubs were in the World Series. My
>understanding of the curse is that it was Billy Goat
>Sianis who invoked the curse during game 4 of the 1945
>World Series after his pet goat, Murphy, was banned
>from entering Wrigley Field. Apparently, Sianis stood
>out in front of the stadium, shook his fist, and
>uttered in his broken English "Never agin will World
>Series be played in Wrigley Field."
>
>There has been numerous attempts to lift the curse
>over the years and none have been successful. If the
>Cubs ever want to return to the World Series, and it's
>been 95 years since their last World Series Title, as
>much as I love Wrigley Fields...it's painfully obvious
>that they should build a new stadium.
>
>-Scott
>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
>
>.
>
>
>
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:51:36 -0700
From: bill london
To: Vision2020 ,
"Ted McDonough (TMCDONOUGH@dnews.com)" ,
city , joel mills ,
david johnson , nathan alford
Subject: [Vision2020] questionnaire now available on website
The responses of the ten Moscow City Council candidates to the
Moscow Vision 2020 candidate questionnaire are now posted at the Vision
2020 website at:
http://vision2020.moscow.com/Election/
The questions were written and distributed by the Vision 2020
questionnaire committee and posted to the website by the wizards at
First Step Internet as a public service.
Thanks again to Bill Moore and First Step.
BL
--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:35:56 -0700
From: Steve Wells
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery!
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Doug Wilson says that good Christians are not embarrassed by anything
in the bible and that they should apply all of its teachings in their
daily lives. (Daily News, Oct.11-12) Those who try to follow his advice,
however, will encounter some problems along the way. For example:
a) The bible says that anyone who worships a false god must be stoned to
death (Deut.13:6-10
).
Clearly this would include the Buddhists, but what about the Mormons?
Must we stone them, too?
b) If a man has sex with his wife and his mother-in-law, all three must
be burned to death (Lev.20:14
). I can see that the
husband and mother-in-law have no excuse, but what if the wife doesn't
know of the affair between her mother and husband? Must we burn her anyway?
c) The bible has two punishments for homosexuality: death (Lev.20:13
) and exile (Doug
Wilson, Oct.11-12). When should we apply the death penalty? And when
exiling homosexuals, should we exclude them from the United States or
just from the Moscow city limits?
d) I have a son who refuses to clean his room. The bible says that a son
who won't obey his father must be stoned to death (Deut.21:18-21
).
Should I give him another chance before killing him?
e) A woman who touches a man's genitals must have her hand cut off
(Deut.25:11-12
).
The bible says that we are to show her no pity, but would it be okay to
use a local anesthetic?
It's hard to find a Christian minister who is not afraid of the bible,
and who will defend all of its teachings - even those regarding slavery
and homosexuality. But Doug Wilson claims to be such a minister. If so,
then maybe he can resolve these problems in the practical application of
the bible's teachings.
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Doug Wilson says that good Christians are not embarrassed by anything in
the bible and that they should apply all of its teachings in their daily
lives. (Daily News, Oct.11-12) Those who try to follow his advice, however,
will encounter some problems along the way. For example:
a) The bible says that anyone who worships a false god must be stoned
to death ( href="http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_whole_family/dt13_06-08.html">Deut.13:6-10).
Clearly this would include the Buddhists, but what about the Mormons? Must
we stone them, too?
b) If a man has sex with his wife and his mother-in-law, all three must
be burned to death ( href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#14">Lev.20:14). I
can see that the husband and mother-in-law have no excuse, but what if the
wife doesn't know of the affair between her mother and husband? Must we burn
her anyway?
c) The bible has two punishments for homosexuality: death ( href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#13">Lev.20:13) and
exile (Doug Wilson, Oct.11-12). When should we apply the death penalty? And
when exiling homosexuals, should we exclude them from the United States or
just from the Moscow city limits?
d) I have a son who refuses to clean his room. The bible says that a son
who won't obey his father must be stoned to death ( href="http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_children/dt21_18a.html">Deut.21:18-21).
Should I give him another chance before killing him?
e) A woman who touches a man's genitals must have her hand cut off ( href="http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament//the_law/brawling/dt25_11a.html">Deut.25:11-12).
The bible says that we are to show her no pity, but would it be okay to use
a local anesthetic?
It's hard to find a Christian minister who is not afraid of the bible,
and who will defend all of its teachings even those regarding slavery and
homosexuality. But Doug Wilson claims to be such a minister. If so, then
maybe he can resolve these problems in the practical application of the
bible's teachings.
--------------030108070407080506000502--
--__--__--
Message: 6
From: "Dan Carscallen"
To:
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:40:59 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] calling Jim Meyer
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Jim,
If you want a response, I need a valid email address.
Thanks
Dan Carscallen
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align=3Dleft>size=3D2>
class=3D140043113-16102003>Jim,
class=3D140043113-16102003>
class=3D140043113-16102003>If you want a response, I need a valid email=20
address.
class=3D140043113-16102003>
class=3D140043113-16102003>Thanks
class=3D140043113-16102003>
class=3D140043113-16102003>Dan =
Carscallen
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Message: 7
Reply-To:
From: "Jack Van Deventer"
To:
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:12:53 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] U of I pulls the plug on homecoming parody skit
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"The Phi Delta Theta fraternity was banned from homecoming competitions last
week after its members performed a skit that homecoming officials said went
too far."
http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=51528
Jack
__________________________________
Jack Van Deventer
jack@moscowUSA.com
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style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman"'>The Phi Delta Theta fraternity was =
banned
from homecoming competitions last week after its members performed a =
skit that
homecoming officials said went too far.
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>href=3D"http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=3D51528">http://www.id=
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12.0pt'>
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:29:26 -0700
From: bill london
To: Vision2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Jack Hill and citizen empowerment
In today's Lewiston Tribune (10/16, page 5A), in a story about the
Chamber of Commerce candidate forum, Councilmember Jack Hill "scolded
residents" for empowering themselves and daring to question the plans,
activities and decisions of the Council.
He specifically targetted the discussions on Vision 2020.
Jack must have missed those classes in civics and democracy in
school. Or maybe he actually prefers Moscow citizens to be passive and
apathetic.
Jack's paternalistic attitude is exactly what is wrong with Moscow's
Council. He seems to think that only the elected officials and city
staff have the expertise and vision to direct the city--and that the
role of the citizenry is to sit smiling on the sidelines quietly paying
for it all.
It's time for a new Council in Moscow.
BL
--__--__--
Message: 9
From: "Dale Courtney"
To:
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jack Hill and citizen empowerment
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:48 -0700
Bill wrote:
> In today's Lewiston Tribune (10/16, page 5A), in a story about the
> Chamber of Commerce candidate forum, Councilmember Jack Hill "scolded
> residents" for empowering themselves and daring to question the plans,
> activities and decisions of the Council.
> He specifically targetted the discussions on Vision 2020.
Bill, is there any way to get the *exact* quotes on this?
Not that I don't trust the Lewiston Tribune and the Daily News to get
stories accurate...
Best,
Dale
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Debbie Gray
To: Vision 2020
Subject: [Vision2020] sojourner's alliance calendar
While browsing the Lewiston Trib I was sidetracked by the great story on
the calendar fundraiser for sojourner's alliance, what a great fundraiser!
I am glad to see a 'fun' fundraiser for such
a great cause. Can't wait to buy one or two!
Debbie Gray
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
Debbie Gray dgray@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~dgray/
We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to
have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell
%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
--__--__--
Message: 11
From: "Carl Westberg"
To: dgray@uidaho.edu, vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] sojourner's alliance calendar
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:03:50 -0700
Oh sure, first it's topless car washes, now naked Moscow men on a fund
raising calendar. We obviously have trouble right here in River City. Next
thing you know, we'll have pool halls.
=== message truncated ===
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<DIV>What I don't understand is why you insist on living just in part of the Bible? Jesus came into this world as a man in order to show us just how God wants us to live. Remember the healing of the guard when a deciple cut the guard's ear off - even though that same guard would later help in arresting Jesus?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are just two great laws we are supposed to follow: Love the Lord God with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your body. The second is like it; Love your neighbor as yourself. Both of these resolve all of your life's problems...when applied properly.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course, this does NOT mean love your neighbor in the sence that you "make love" to your neighbor even if they are the same gender as you, or by committing adultry. Showing respect for them is what is being asked. Showing your child respect by disciplining them is also what is being asked of us.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Why you insist on taking things to the radical is beyond me. Just try not only reading the Bible, but understanding it. All of your examples show a true mis-understanding of what is truely being taught.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you.<BR><BR><B><I>vision2020-request@moscow.com</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to<BR>vision2020@moscow.com<BR><BR>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020<BR>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>vision2020-request@moscow.com<BR><BR>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>vision2020-admin@moscow.com<BR><BR>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's Topics:<BR><BR>1. Modern Slavery in the U.S. (Eric Martin)<BR>2. Another thought (Scott Dredge)<BR>3. Another thought (Nate Wilson)<BR>4. questionnaire now available on website (bill london)<BR>5. Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Steve Wells)<BR>6. calling Jim Meyer (Dan Carscallen)<BR>7. U of I pulls the plug on homecoming parody skit (Jack Van Deventer)<BR>8. Jack Hill and citizen empo!
werment
(bill london)<BR>9. Re: Jack Hill and citizen empowerment (Dale Courtney)<BR>10. sojourner's alliance calendar (Debbie Gray)<BR>11. Re: sojourner's alliance calendar (Carl Westberg)<BR>12. RE: Jack Hill and citizen empowerment (Thomas Hansen)<BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 1<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Eric Martin <RIK82@YAHOO.COM><BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Modern Slavery in the U.S.<BR><BR>Before we congratualte ourselves too quickly on having<BR>ended modern day slavery in the U.S., I suggest<BR>looking into the labor utilized to provide at least<BR>some of our orange juice. Doesn't it seem a little<BR>strange that folks in Northern Idaho can purchase a<BR>gallon of O.J. for a buck or two any time of year? <BR><BR>A simple google search will provide lots of info.,<BR>including materials from the Department of Justice<BR>indicating the problems extends far beyond O.J.<BR><BR>And what about the "cheap goods" we pick!
up at
the<BR>store that have been manufactured under forced labor<BR>conditions abroad? I think those products alone<BR>indicate that slavery is alive and well, even in this<BR>country. Why else would Bush II have brought it up<BR>the last time he adressed the nation via television?<BR><BR>Eric<BR><BR><BR>--- Gregory Dickison <GDICKISON@MOSCOW.COM>wrote:<BR>> Dear Rwiza:<BR>> <BR>> I think your question will have to go unanswered. To<BR>> my knowledge, there are no "slavery supporters" on<BR>> this list, or in Moscow. That institution is,<BR>> thankfully, ended in this country.<BR>> <BR>> Sincerely,<BR>> <BR>> Gregory C. Dickison<BR>> Lawyer & Counselor at Law<BR>> Post Office Box 8846<BR>> 208 South Main #2<BR>> Moscow, Idaho 83843<BR>> (208) 882-4009<BR>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: katetegeilwe rwiza <BR>> To: vision2020@moscow.com <BR>> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 5:14 PM<BR>> Subject: [Vision202!
0]
Slavery and War in Iraq<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> It would be interesting to know the stand of the<BR>> "slavery supporters" on the war in Iraq. We are now<BR>> being told that, the major objective for going to<BR>> war was to "free" the people of Iraq. How can you<BR>> support "freeing" people in Iraq, but wish to have<BR>> kept slaves in the USA? Ant this a contradiction?<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Rwiza<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> 486 Taylor Avenue # 3, <BR>> Moscow,<BR>> Idaho 83843,<BR>> USA<BR>> Tel.: 1-208-885-1452<BR>> WebPage: http://www.uidaho.edu/~rwiz2091<BR>> <BR>> <BR>><BR>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months<BR>> FREE*<BR>><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>> serving the communities of the Palous!
e since
1994.<BR>> http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>><BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ <BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search<BR>http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 2<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:06:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Scott Dredge <SDREDGE@YAHOO.COM><BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Another thought<BR><BR>As I watched in amazement last night as the Cubs<BR>collapsed in the 8th inning of the NLCS, I was<BR>thinking once again about the notorious "Billy Goat<BR>Curse" that has plagued the team since 1945, the last<BR>time the Cubs were in the World Series. My<BR>understanding of the curse is that it was Billy Goat<BR>Sianis who invoked the curse during game 4 of the 1945<BR>World Series after his pet goat, Murphy, was banned<BR>from entering Wrigley Field. Apparently, Sianis stood<BR>out in front of t!
he
stadium, shook his fist, and<BR>uttered in his broken English "Never agin will World<BR>Series be played in Wrigley Field."<BR><BR>There has been numerous attempts to lift the curse<BR>over the years and none have been successful. If the<BR>Cubs ever want to return to the World Series, and it's<BR>been 95 years since their last World Series Title, as<BR>much as I love Wrigley Fields...it's painfully obvious<BR>that they should build a new stadium.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 3<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:42:31 -0700<BR>From: Nate Wilson <NATEWILSON@MOSCOW.COM><BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com, Scott Dredge <SDREDGE@YAHOO.COM><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Another thought<BR><BR>Is that fan on the third baseline still alive?<BR><BR>NDW<BR><BR>Scott Dredge wrote:<BR><BR>>As I watched in amazement last night as the Cubs<BR>>collapsed in the 8th inning of the NLCS, I was<BR>>thinking once again about the notorious "Billy Goat<BR>>Curse" that has plag!
ued the
team since 1945, the last<BR>>time the Cubs were in the World Series. My<BR>>understanding of the curse is that it was Billy Goat<BR>>Sianis who invoked the curse during game 4 of the 1945<BR>>World Series after his pet goat, Murphy, was banned<BR>>from entering Wrigley Field. Apparently, Sianis stood<BR>>out in front of the stadium, shook his fist, and<BR>>uttered in his broken English "Never agin will World<BR>>Series be played in Wrigley Field."<BR>><BR>>There has been numerous attempts to lift the curse<BR>>over the years and none have been successful. If the<BR>>Cubs ever want to return to the World Series, and it's<BR>>been 95 years since their last World Series Title, as<BR>>much as I love Wrigley Fields...it's painfully obvious<BR>>that they should build a new stadium.<BR>><BR>>-Scott<BR>><BR>>_____________________________________________________<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR!
>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR>><BR>>.<BR>><BR>> <BR>><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 4<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:51:36 -0700<BR>From: bill london <LONDON@MOSCOW.COM><BR>To: Vision2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>,<BR>"Ted McDonough (TMCDONOUGH@dnews.com)" <TMCDONOUGH@DNEWS.COM>,<BR>city <CITY@LMTRIBUNE.COM>, joel mills <JMILLS@LMTRIBUNE.COM>,<BR>david johnson <DEVERYONE@POTLATCH.COM>, nathan alford <ALFORD@DNEWS.COM><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] questionnaire now available on website<BR><BR>The responses of the ten Moscow City Council candidates to the <BR>Moscow Vision 2020 candidate questionnaire are now posted at the Vision <BR>2020 website at:<BR>http://vision2020.moscow.com/Election/<BR>The questions were written and distributed by the Vision 2020 <BR>questionnaire committee and posted to the website by t!
he
wizards at <BR>First Step Internet as a public service.<BR>Thanks again to Bill Moore and First Step.<BR>BL<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 5<BR>Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:35:56 -0700<BR>From: Steve Wells <WELLSTEP@TURBONET.COM><BR>To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery!<BR><BR><BR>--------------030108070407080506000502<BR>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>Doug Wilson says that good Christians are not embarrassed by anything <BR>in the bible and that they should apply all of its teachings in their <BR>daily lives. (Daily News, Oct.11-12) Those who try to follow his advice, <BR>however, will encounter some problems along the way. For example:<BR><BR>a) The bible says that anyone who worships a false god must be stoned to <BR>death (Deut.13:6-10 <BR><HTTP: dt13_06-08.html when_to_stone_your_whole_family the_law www.thebricktestament.com>). <BR>Clearly this would include the
Buddhists, but what about the Mormons? <BR>Must we stone them, too?<BR><BR>b) If a man has sex with his wife and his mother-in-law, all three must <BR>be burned to death (Lev.20:14 <BR><HTTP: 20.html#14 lev skepticsannotatedbible.com>). I can see that the <BR>husband and mother-in-law have no excuse, but what if the wife doesn't <BR>know of the affair between her mother and husband? Must we burn her anyway?<BR><BR>c) The bible has two punishments for homosexuality: death (Lev.20:13 <BR><HTTP: lev skepticsannotatedbible.com 20.html#13>) and exile (Doug <BR>Wilson, Oct.11-12). When should we apply the death penalty? And when <BR>exiling homosexuals, should we exclude them from the United States or <BR>just from the Moscow city limits?<BR><BR>d) I have a son who refuses to clean his room. The bible says that a son <BR>who won't obey his father must be stoned to death (Deut.21:18-21 <BR><HTTP: the_law www.thebricktestament.com dt21_18a.html when_to_stone_your_children>). <BR>Sh!
ould I
give him another chance before killing him?<BR><BR>e) A woman who touches a man's genitals must have her hand cut off <BR>(Deut.25:11-12 <BR><HTTP: the_law dt25_11a.html brawling brick_testament www.thereverend.com>). <BR>The bible says that we are to show her no pity, but would it be okay to <BR>use a local anesthetic?<BR><BR>It's hard to find a Christian minister who is not afraid of the bible, <BR>and who will defend all of its teachings - even those regarding slavery <BR>and homosexuality. But Doug Wilson claims to be such a minister. If so, <BR>then maybe he can resolve these problems in the practical application of <BR>the bible's teachings.<BR><BR>--------------030108070407080506000502<BR>Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-text-html lang=x-western><BR>Doug Wilson says that good Christians are not embarrassed by anything in<BR>the bible and that they should apply all of its teachings in their daily<BR>lives. (Daily News, Oct.11-12) Those who try to follow his advice, however,<BR>will encounter some problems along the way. For example:<BR><BR><BR><BR>a) The bible says that anyone who worships a false god must be stoned<BR>to death (<A<BR> href="http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_whole_family/dt13_06-08.html">Deut.13:6-10</A>).<BR>Clearly this would include the Buddhists, but what about the Mormons? Must<BR>we stone them, too?<BR><BR><BR><BR>b) If a man has sex with his wife and his mother-in-law, all three must<BR>be burned to death (<A<BR> href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#14">Lev.20:14</A>). I<BR>can see that the husband and mother-in-law have no excuse, but what if the<BR>wife doesn't know of the affair between her mother and hus!
band?
Must we burn<BR>her anyway?<BR><BR><BR><BR>c) The bible has two punishments for homosexuality: death (<A<BR> href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#13">Lev.20:13</A>) and <BR>exile (Doug Wilson, Oct.11-12). When should we apply the death penalty? And<BR>when exiling homosexuals, should we exclude them from the United States or<BR>just from the Moscow city limits?<BR><BR><BR><BR>d) I have a son who refuses to clean his room. The bible says that a son <BR>who won't obey his father must be stoned to death (<A<BR> href="http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_stone_your_children/dt21_18a.html">Deut.21:18-21</A>).<BR>Should I give him another chance before killing him?<BR><BR><BR><BR>e) A woman who touches a man's genitals must have her hand cut off (<A<BR> href="http://www.thereverend.com/brick_testament//the_law/brawling/dt25_11a.html">Deut.25:11-12</A>). <BR>The bible says that we are to show her no pity, but would it be okay to use<BR>a local
anesthetic?<BR><BR><BR><BR>It's hard to find a Christian minister who is not afraid of the bible, <BR>and who will defend all of its teachings even those regarding slavery and<BR>homosexuality. But Doug Wilson claims to be such a minister. If so, then<BR>maybe he can resolve these problems in the practical application of the<BR>bible's teachings. </DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR>--------------030108070407080506000502--<BR><BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 6<BR>From: "Dan Carscallen" <PREDATOR75@MOSCOW.COM><BR>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:40:59 -0700<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] calling Jim Meyer<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C393B0.75E9A740<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>charset="us-ascii"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Jim, <BR><BR>If you want a response, I need a valid email address.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Dan
Carscallen<BR><BR>------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C393B0.75E9A740<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>charset="us-ascii"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR><BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003>Jim, </SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003>If you want a response, I need a valid email=20<BR>address.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003>Thanks</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV><BR>
<DIV><FONT face='3D"Comic' color=#3d8000 size=3 MS? Sans><SPAN=20<BR>class=3D140043113-16102003>Dan =<BR>Carscallen</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR><BR>------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C393B0.75E9A740--<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 7<BR>Reply-To: <JACK@MOSCOWUSA.COM><BR>From: "Jack Van Deventer" <JACK@MOSCOWUSA.COM><BR>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:12:53 -0700<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] U of I pulls the plug on homecoming parody skit<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C393B4.EB856490<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>charset="us-ascii"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>"The Phi Delta Theta fraternity was banned from homecoming competitions last<BR>week after its members performed a skit that homecoming officials said went<BR>too far."<BR><BR>http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=51528 <BR><BR>Jack<BR><BR>__________________________________<BR><BR>Jack Van Deventer<BR><BR>jack@moscowUSA.com
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<P><FONT face='3D"Times' color=#3d0a00 size=3 Roman? New><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;<BR>font-family:"Times New Roman"'>The Phi Delta Theta fraternity was =<BR>banned<BR>from homecoming competitions last week after its members performed a =<BR>skit that<BR>homecoming officials said went too far.</SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=#3d0a00 size=3><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'><A<BR>href=3D"http://www.idahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=3D51528">http://www.id=<BR>ahostatesman.com/Story.asp?ID=3D51528</A><BR></SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face='3D"Times' size=3 Roman? New><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:<BR>12.0pt'>Jack</SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;<BR>font-family:Arial'>__________________________________</SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=#3d0a00 size=3><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:<BR>10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jack Van Deventer</SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=#3d0a00 size=3><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:<BR>10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><A ="<br">href=3D"mailto:jack@wsu.edu">jack@moscowUSA.com</A></SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face='3D"Times' size=3 Roman? New><SPAN ="<br">style=3D'font-size:<BR>12.0pt'> </SPAN></FONT></P><BR><BR></DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C393B4.EB856490--<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 8<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:29:26 -0700<BR>From: bill london <LONDON@MOSCOW.COM><BR>To: Vision2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Jack Hill and citizen empowerment<BR><BR>In today's Lewiston Tribune (10/16, page 5A), in a story about the <BR>Chamber of Commerce candidate forum, Councilmember Jack Hill "scolded <BR>residents" for empowering themselves and daring to question the plans, <BR>activities and decisions of the Council.<BR>He specifically targetted the discussions on Vision 2020.<BR>Jack must have missed those classes in civics and democracy in <BR>school. Or maybe he actually prefers Moscow citizens to be passive and <BR>apathetic. <BR>Jack's paternalistic attitude is exactly what is wrong with M!
oscow's
<BR>Council. He seems to think that only the elected officials and city <BR>staff have the expertise and vision to direct the city--and that the <BR>role of the citizenry is to sit smiling on the sidelines quietly paying <BR>for it all.<BR>It's time for a new Council in Moscow.<BR>BL<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 9<BR>From: "Dale Courtney" <DMCOURTN@MOSCOW.COM><BR>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Jack Hill and citizen empowerment<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:38:48 -0700<BR><BR>Bill wrote:<BR>> In today's Lewiston Tribune (10/16, page 5A), in a story about the<BR>> Chamber of Commerce candidate forum, Councilmember Jack Hill "scolded<BR>> residents" for empowering themselves and daring to question the plans,<BR>> activities and decisions of the Council.<BR>> He specifically targetted the discussions on Vision 2020.<BR><BR>Bill, is there any way to get the *exact* quotes on this?<BR><BR>Not that I don't trust the Lewiston Tribune!
and the
Daily News to get<BR>stories accurate...<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Dale<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 10<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:50:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Debbie Gray <DGRAY@UIDAHO.EDU><BR>To: Vision 2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Subject: [Vision2020] sojourner's alliance calendar<BR><BR>While browsing the Lewiston Trib I was sidetracked by the great story on<BR>the calendar fundraiser for sojourner's alliance, what a great fundraiser!<BR>I am glad to see a 'fun' fundraiser for such<BR>a great cause. Can't wait to buy one or two!<BR><BR>Debbie Gray<BR><BR>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%<BR>Debbie Gray dgray@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~dgray/<BR>We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to<BR>have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell<BR>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%<BR><BR><BR>--__--__--<BR><BR>Message: 11<BR>From: "Carl Westberg"
<CARLWESTBERG846@HOTMAIL.COM><BR>To: dgray@uidaho.edu, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] sojourner's alliance calendar<BR>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:03:50 -0700<BR><BR>Oh sure, first it's topless car washes, now naked Moscow men on a fund <BR>raising calendar. We obviously have trouble right here in River City. Next <BR>thing you know, we'll have pool halls. <BR><BR><BR>=== message truncated ===</BLOCKQUOTE></mailto:jack@wsu.edu><p><hr SIZE=1>
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