[Vision2020] Yet More Questions for Doug --

Andreas Schou scho8053@uidaho.edu
Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:35:18 -0700


This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_t+qFOinzecyqvbBfpVmBQA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: inline

(1) Is your conflict with the RPCUSA based on differences between Dabney and "mainstream" Presbyterian thought? I've seen critiques of Dabney. I've come to understand that he's closer to the edges of Reformed orthodoxy than the center.

Also: what the hell is "Auburn theology?" I assume it has something to do with Wilkins' Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church, but I don't know anyone who knows enough about it to tell me what it is.

Okay. I'm done with theology. Round three: questions about sources!

(2) To what extent did you and Pastor Wilkins rely on R.L. Dabney's _In Defense of Virginia_? Is there a copy of your monograph available with cititations marked? I own a copy of SS: AIW, and am not quite certain how to respond to the points made.

I realize that, in the popular press, footnotes aren't strictly required, but they do make life easier for someone attempting to respond to you point-by-point.

--Boundary_(ID_t+qFOinzecyqvbBfpVmBQA)
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

Return-path: <vision2020-admin@moscow.com>
Received: from conversion-daemon.mailA.its.uidaho.edu by mailA.its.uidaho.edu
 (Go Vandals!) id <0HMP00E01QL8SI@mailA.its.uidaho.edu>; Mon,
 13 Oct 2003 13:58:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from snow ([129.101.155.251]) by mailA.its.uidaho.edu (Go Vandals!)
 with ESMTPP id <0HMP00390RKHBK@mailA.its.uidaho.edu>; Mon,
 13 Oct 2003 13:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mailB.its.uidaho.edu by mailB.its.uidaho.edu
 (Go Vandals!) id <0HMP00C01Q7HTH@mailB.its.uidaho.edu>; Mon,
 13 Oct 2003 13:57:54 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from whale2.fsr.net ([207.141.26.23])
 by mailB.its.uidaho.edu (Go Vandals!)
 with ESMTPP id <0HMP00IIRRG0SL@mailB.its.uidaho.edu>; Mon,
 13 Oct 2003 13:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from whale2.fsr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by whale2.fsr.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id h9DKt6KM088281; Mon,
 13 Oct 2003 13:55:06 -0700
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:54:00 -0700
From: vision2020-request@moscow.com
Subject: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #859 - 10 msgs
Sender: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Errors-to: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
Reply-to: vision2020@moscow.com
Message-id: <20031013205400.85931.43486.Mailman@whale2.fsr.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.10
Content-type: text/plain
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: vision2020@moscow.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10
List-Post: <mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020>,
	<mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=subscribe>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020>,
	<mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists2.fsr.net/pipermail/vision2020/>
List-Help: <mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=help>
List-Id: Moscow/Latah county community discussion list <vision2020.moscow.com>

Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
	vision2020@moscow.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	vision2020-request@moscow.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
	vision2020-admin@moscow.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Melynda Huskey)
   2. RE: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Tom Hansen)
   3. Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Gregory Dickison)
   4. Aaaaa? Slavery! (Douglas)
   5. RE: Aaaaa? Slavery! (Judy B. LaLonde)
   6. Too many movie screens? (Carl Westberg)
   7. RE: Too many movie screens? (Thomas Hansen)
   8. Re: Aaaaa? Slavery! (Dale Courtney)
   9. Re: Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Jeremy Downey)
  10. Aaaaaa! Slavery! (Nate Wilson)

--__--__--

Message: 1
From: "Melynda Huskey" <mghuskey@hotmail.com>
To: "Jeremy Downey" <dunadhaigh@hotmail.com>,
   "vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:09:49 -0700


------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C39182.E68EF390
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Jeremy:

I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker slaveowners, =
I say with sorrow and regret.  I am married to a descendant of North Caro=
lina slave owners.  Using your argument, nothing I say can be construed a=
s revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a fondness for both=
 myself and for Joan.  Do you see the difficulty now?

It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose of h=
is tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution.  If that's not =
true, and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask aga=
in, what kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. a=
nd says to himself, "You know, those slave owners got a bad rap.  Everybo=
dy feels sorry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of t=
hose fine traffickers in human beings, the owners?"  =20

The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the question of =
slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*  Don't fool yours=
elf that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research on the =
subject, though.  It's on a par with the work of David Irving.

Melynda HuskeyGet more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http:/=
/explorer.msn.com

------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C39182.E68EF390
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Dear Jeremy:</=
DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I am myself descended from slaveowners--Penns=
ylvania Quaker slaveowners, I say with sorrow and regret.&nbsp; I am marr=
ied to a descendant of North Carolina slave owners.&nbsp; Using your argu=
ment, nothing I say can be construed as revealing a bias against slave ow=
ners, since I have a fondness for both myself and for Joan.&nbsp; Do you =
see the difficulty now?</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>It was Doug Wilson, =
in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose of his tract was to defe=
nd slavery as a Biblical institution.&nbsp; If that's not true, and his p=
urpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask again, what kind o=
f person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. and says to hims=
elf, "You know, those slave owners got a bad rap.&nbsp; Everybody feels s=
orry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of those fine =
traffickers in human beings, the&nbsp;owners?"&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</=
DIV> <DIV>The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the qu=
estion of slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*&nbsp; D=
on't fool yourself that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious r=
esearch on the subject, though.&nbsp; It's on a par with the work of Davi=
d Irving.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV></BODY></HTML>=
<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : =
<a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C39182.E68EF390--


--__--__--

Message: 2
Reply-To: <thansen@moscow.com>
From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>
To: "Melynda Huskey" <mghuskey@hotmail.com>,
   "Jeremy Downey" <dunadhaigh@hotmail.com>,
   "vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:21:29 -0700

I agree totally, Ms Huskey.

If it looks like defecation and smells like defecation, chances are . . .

Tom Hansen
Moscow


-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:10 PM
To: Jeremy Downey; vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!


Dear Jeremy:

I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker slaveowners, I
say with sorrow and regret.  I am married to a descendant of North Carolina
slave owners.  Using your argument, nothing I say can be construed as
revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a fondness for both
myself and for Joan.  Do you see the difficulty now?

It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose of his
tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution.  If that's not true,
and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask again, what
kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. and says to
himself, "You know, those slave owners got a bad rap.  Everybody feels sorry
for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of those fine
traffickers in human beings, the owners?"

The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the question of
slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*  Don't fool yourself
that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research on the
subject, though.  It's on a par with the work of David Irving.

Melynda Huskey



Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


--__--__--

Message: 3
From: "Gregory Dickison" <gdickison@moscow.com>
To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:36:39 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C39186.A5F8D860
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Melynda said: "I am married to a descendant of North Carolina slave =
owners."

At the risk of being labled a homophobic hatemonger and of Miss Huskey =
not liking me anymore, where do you get this "married" stuff?

Gregory C. Dickison
Lawyer & Counselor at Law
Post Office Box 8846
208 South Main #2
Moscow, Idaho 83843
(208) 882-4009
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Melynda Huskey=20
  To: Jeremy Downey ; vision2020=20
  Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!


  Dear Jeremy:

  I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker =
slaveowners, I say with sorrow and regret.  I am married to a descendant =
of North Carolina slave owners.  Using your argument, nothing I say can =
be construed as revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a =
fondness for both myself and for Joan.  Do you see the difficulty now?

  It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose =
of his tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution.  If that's =
not true, and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to =
ask again, what kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in =
the U.S. and says to himself, "You know, those slave owners got a bad =
rap.  Everybody feels sorry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up =
on behalf of those fine traffickers in human beings, the owners?" =20

  The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the question =
of slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*  Don't fool =
yourself that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research =
on the subject, though.  It's on a par with the work of David Irving.

  Melynda Huskey


-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
  Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : =
http://explorer.msn.com


------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C39186.A5F8D860
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY=20
style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; FONT: 10pt =
verdana; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"=20
bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Melynda said: "I am married to a descendant of =
North=20
Carolina slave owners."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>At the risk of being labled a homophobic =
hatemonger and of=20
Miss Huskey not liking me anymore, where do you get this "married"=20
stuff?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>Gregory C. Dickison<BR>Lawyer &amp; Counselor at =

Law<BR>Post Office Box 8846<BR>208 South Main #2<BR>Moscow, Idaho =
83843<BR>(208)=20
882-4009</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Dmghuskey@hotmail.com =
href=3D"mailto:mghuskey@hotmail.com">Melynda=20
  Huskey</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddunadhaigh@hotmail.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:dunadhaigh@hotmail.com">Jeremy Downey</A> ; <A=20
  title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 13, 2003 =
12:09=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] =
Aaaaaa!=20
  Slavery!</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>Dear Jeremy:</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker =
slaveowners,=20
  I say with sorrow and regret.&nbsp; I am married to a descendant of =
North=20
  Carolina slave owners.&nbsp; Using your argument, nothing I say can be =

  construed as revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a =
fondness=20
  for both myself and for Joan.&nbsp; Do you see the difficulty =
now?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the =
purpose of=20
  his tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution.&nbsp; If =
that's not=20
  true, and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask =
again,=20
  what kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. =
and says=20
  to himself, "You know, those slave owners got a bad rap.&nbsp; =
Everybody feels=20
  sorry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of those =
fine=20
  traffickers in human beings, the&nbsp;owners?"&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the =
question of=20
  slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*&nbsp; Don't =
fool=20
  yourself that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research =
on the=20
  subject, though.&nbsp; It's on a par with the work of David =
Irving.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <A=20
  href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</A><BR>
  <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C39186.A5F8D860--


--__--__--

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:38:55 -0700
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] Aaaaa? Slavery!


Visionaries,

Related to the article in the newspaper this weekend, there is one other 
item you should know. The Daily News did the story on the basis of an 
anonymous flyer that was circulated downtown. The flyer was done in such a 
way that if someone was not paying close attention (as some people on this 
list sometimes don't), they might think we had done it. But no, not us.

Cordially,

Douglas

P.S. I think someone needs to write a biography soon -- The Life and Times 
of Anonymous: A Profile in Courage.


--__--__--

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:27:53 -0700
From: "Judy B. LaLonde" <judyb@uidaho.edu>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Aaaaa? Slavery!
To: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>, vision2020@moscow.com

Well, now, don't you find yourself in the same situation that you and Mr.
Jones thought was funny--an anonymous flyer that looked like it came from
where it didn't!!
Judy LaLonde


-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Douglas
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:39 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Aaaaa? Slavery!



Visionaries,

Related to the article in the newspaper this weekend, there is one other
item you should know. The Daily News did the story on the basis of an
anonymous flyer that was circulated downtown. The flyer was done in such a
way that if someone was not paying close attention (as some people on this
list sometimes don't), they might think we had done it. But no, not us.

Cordially,

Douglas

P.S. I think someone needs to write a biography soon -- The Life and Times
of Anonymous: A Profile in Courage.

_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////


--__--__--

Message: 6
From: "Carl Westberg" <carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:29:01 -0700
Subject: [Vision2020] Too many movie screens?

Following the slavery debate got me to thinking about "Birth of a Nation", 
which got me to thinking about movies in general, which got me to thinking 
about the new 8 screen multi-plex in Pullman, which got me to wondering if 
Moscow-Pullman won't have reached a saturation point, all of which led me 
from the original topic, and begs the question:  Do we have enough people to 
support some 20 movie screens here, or will something have to give, perhaps 
one of the multi-plexes in Moscow?                                           
                                                                             
                                                                             
                                                                             
  Carl Westberg Jr.

_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet 
Service.  Try it FREE for one month!   http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup


--__--__--

Message: 7
From: Thomas Hansen <tomh@uidaho.edu>
To: "'Carl Westberg'" <carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Too many movie screens?
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:36:05 -0700

What Moscow really needs is another large grocery store.  Winco, Rosauers,
Tidyman's, and Safeway just simply are not enough for the Moscow
megalopolis.  I think that we should replace East City Park with a grocery
store and a large parking lot.

Tom Hansen

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Westberg [mailto:carlwestberg846@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:29 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Too many movie screens?


Following the slavery debate got me to thinking about "Birth of a Nation", 
which got me to thinking about movies in general, which got me to thinking 
about the new 8 screen multi-plex in Pullman, which got me to wondering if 
Moscow-Pullman won't have reached a saturation point, all of which led me 
from the original topic, and begs the question:  Do we have enough people to

support some 20 movie screens here, or will something have to give, perhaps 
one of the multi-plexes in Moscow?

 

 

 

  Carl Westberg Jr.

_________________________________________________________________
Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet 
Service.  Try it FREE for one month!   http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ


--__--__--

Message: 8
From: "Dale Courtney" <dmcourtn@moscow.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaa? Slavery!
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:41:49 -0700

> The Daily News did the story on the basis of an
> anonymous flyer that was circulated downtown. The flyer was done in such a
> way that if someone was not paying close attention (as some people on this
> list sometimes don't), they might think we had done it. But no, not us.

It is quite odd that a local paper would print a front-page, headline story
based on an anonymous flier -- a flier designed to be slanderous and
inciting.

Must be a Moscow-thing. Such "journalism" isn't tolerated in any other town
I've ever lived in.

Does anyone know if the Moscow-Pullman Daily News is a subsidiary of the
National Enquirer? Their recent journalistic tactics seem more along the
lines of that Boca Raton rag.

Best,
Dale


--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Jeremy Downey" <dunadhaigh@hotmail.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:43:37 -0700

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Melynda Huskey wrote:</P>
<P>"I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker slaveowners, I say with sorrow and regret. I am married to a descendant of North Carolina slave owners. Using your argument, nothing I say can be construed as revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a fondness for both myself and for Joan. Do you see the difficulty now?"<BR><BR>I'm afraid I don't.&nbsp; Since when is it unheard-of for children to hate their fathers?&nbsp; Your desire to distance yourself from them is evident from this very paragraph.&nbsp; All your letters seem to me to reveal a deep-seated prejudice against the past, and the typical Darwinist infatuation with the "modern" and "enlightened."</P></DIV>
<P>"It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose of his tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution."</P>
<P>I thought it quite plain that he showed his purpose to be the defense of the Bible as an infallible institution, which is rather a different emphasis.&nbsp; Forgive me for paraphrasing, but he did reapeatedly say something to the effect of, "My primary purpose was to defend the Bible."<BR><BR>"If that's not true, and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask again, what kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. and says to himself, 'You know, those slave owners got a bad rap. Everybody feels sorry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of those fine traffickers in human beings, the owners?'"</P>
<DIV>A person who loves and feels a connection to his forbears, whatever their warts and wrinkles.&nbsp; As a Christian, one is bound up in a mystical Body that transcends not only boundaries of race and language, but also of time.&nbsp; The southern Christian slaveowners (and their Christian slaves) are as much a modern Christian's kindred as those he worships with in the present.&nbsp; And as such they should be treated with the sort of fairness and loyalty that brotherhood demands.&nbsp; This doesn't mean wholesale acceptance of everything they may have said or done, but that is not what Mr. Wilson is doing.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the question of slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.*"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Which only makes it all the more curious that you find Wilson and Wilkins' investigation into the subject so insufferable.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>"Don't fool yourself that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research on the subject, though."</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>That hurt.&nbsp; That hurt bad.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Jeremy Downey</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>&nbsp;</P>
<P>&gt;From: "Melynda Huskey" <MGHUSKEY@HOTMAIL.COM></P>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: "Jeremy Downey" <DUNADHAIGH@HOTMAIL.COM>,"vision2020" <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery! 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:09:49 -0700 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Dear Jeremy: 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;I am myself descended from slaveowners--Pennsylvania Quaker slaveowners, I say with sorrow and regret. I am married to a descendant of North Carolina slave owners. Using your argument, nothing I say can be construed as revealing a bias against slave owners, since I have a fondness for both myself and for Joan. Do you see the difficulty now? 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;It was Doug Wilson, in the Daily News, who asserted that the purpose of his tract was to defend slavery as a Biblical institution. If that's not true, and his purpose was to right an historical wrong, I have to ask again, what kind of person looks at the institution of slavery in the U.S. and says to himself, "You know, those slave owners got a bad rap. Everybody feels sorry for the slaves, sure--but who's speaking up on behalf of those fine traffickers in human beings, the owners?" 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;The modern historical establishment regularly re-engages the question of slavery--witness the brouhaha over *Time on the Cross.* Don't fool yourself that the Wilson/Wilkins tract is part of any serious research on the subject, though. It's on a par with the work of David Irving. 
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Melynda HuskeyGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com 
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr> <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2743??PS=">Enjoy MSN 8 patented spam control and more with MSN 8 Dial-up Internet Service.  Try it FREE for one month!  </a> </html>


--__--__--

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:53:07 -0700
From: Nate Wilson <natewilson@moscow.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Aaaaaa! Slavery!

Dearest Insightful People,
    Vision 2020 occasionally tempts me beyond my capacity for resistance 
and I make noise. Watching various intellects argue that my father is a 
racist is one such temptation. So I have written in to put Melynda's 
concerned mind at ease. Ok, ready? He isn't. Does that fix it? Are we 
all okay now?
    Okay, let's sit down and have a little think. My dad wrote a booklet 
in which he argued that not all Southerners were the pointy-teethed 
villians that they are said to be. Let's just say he disagrees with old 
H. Beecher S. and he doesn't think that Tom's cabin typified Southern 
reality. Let's say that he even thinks that the pre-war South had less 
racial hatred than any other society that he knows of (including the 
post-war South). It is at this point that our local low-priests of 
secular dogma weigh-in in defense of their fifth-grade text books with a 
roaring "Racist!"
    There are two things to be pointed out here. The first is this: If 
Melynda is right, and Uncle Tom's Cabin and Roots are the authorities, 
then at worst my father is a poor historian. Getting from there to 
racism is more stretch than a groin can handle. Especially when you have 
things like his public debate against a white separatist, the twin of 
the first publication "The Biblical Offense of Racism," a tribute to 
black confederates (cheerfully erased by our low priests) in Credenda, 
as well as a published remark in the same magazine telling Southerners 
that they ought to burn their flag and wear the ashes for a change. But 
then the low-priests do have special revelation and can say things like 
"Don't tell me your best friend is black, because that doesn't count." 
Which I admit, is quite a daunting argument. It might almost convince my 
father. "Maybe I don't like black people," he tells himself. "She seems 
pretty sure she's right."
    Now let's try problem number two: Trying to prove a negative. Okay 
Melynda, take off your vestments, and let's see you prove to my 
satisfaction that you're not a racist. You aren't an evolutionist are 
you? Well, chuck that whole 'created equal' thing, how can you say we're 
equal when we're collectively racing out of oobleck by means of 
mutation. Surely all the races aren't in a photo-finish? You don't have 
respect for Planned Parenthood and their accompanying 
racist-saint-founder Margaret Sanger do you? And surely you don't 
approve of Honest Abe and his dream to deport the blacks. Liberia is 
damning Melynda, damning. Please provide evidence that you either 
repudiate Abe L., M. Sanger, Darwin, and the evolutionary process, or I 
shall be forced to find it disturbing that you are allowed during Black 
History Month. And don't tell me that you like black people. Anybody can 
do that and it doesn't count.

NDW



--__--__--

_____________________________________________________
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ

End of Vision2020 Digest

--Boundary_(ID_t+qFOinzecyqvbBfpVmBQA)--