[Vision2020] public schools & indoctrination

Wed, 12 Nov 2003 21:17:24 -0800 (PST)

Amy and Dovovan,

You two are joking right? This is so funny it makes me laugh.

This isn't "sharing." This is about someone being bigger than you,
forcibly taking what belongs to you. It doesn't matter what they
do with it after they "bully" it out of you.

I guess you two think it is ok for the biggest and toughest to 
take from the smaller person. Because that is what this is all about.

Sharing is done voluntarily - out of the kindness of your heart,
selflessly, just as Jesus did. 

Extortion is what you are confusing with sharing. Too bad you cant
see the difference.

Here, I think you should "share" to pay for my house. Here again,
I think you should "share" to pay for my childrens education. 
Here again, I think you should "share" to pay for my retirement.
Here again, I think you should "share" to pay for my medical needs. 
Here again, I think you should "share" to pay for clothing my 
children. Here again, I think you "share" to pay for my job security.
ad nauseum

Please STOP sharing!! Your sharing is causing me to go bankrupt!

Cheers!
John Harrell

--- Donovan Arnold <donovanarnold@hotmail.com> wrote:

---------------------------------

Amy,

Don't you find it ironic that the people that claim to follow Christ, who gave up all his
wealth, property, and even life to the world, would be frieghtened by the concept of a
child sharing with a poorer child their gold colored crayon? What next, will these
children feed the hungry and cloth the naked? I think some things are more important than
the concept of ownership of property. The real values of a person do not rest in THINGS
they call "mine", they are inside the person. That is most important thing you can teach
a child (an in some cases, adults). 

Donovan

>From: "amy smoucha" 

>Reply-To: asmoucha@hotmail.com 

>To: joshuahendrik@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com 

>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] public schools & indoctrination 

>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:50:31 -0600 

> 

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> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822 
> From: "amy smoucha" <asmoucha@hotmail.com>
> To: joshuahendrik@yahoo.com, vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] public schools & indoctrination
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 01:50:31 -0600
> 

---------------------------------

Well, Joshua, it's been a long time since I took child development, but I think the stage
where everything is "mine" belongs primarily to toddlers (and libertarians and you). 
Again, I sincerely doubt that children have any sense of property "rights."  Yeah, before
they realize their connectedness to others, and not just to mom, they live in a
self-centered universe, and they think everything they can eat or touch belongs to them
exclusively, but when properly loved and held and socialized (as I was and as my
theoretical children would be), they move past that stage.

No one would argue that we should teach children that "what their parents buy for them
really belongs to others."  But maybe we should teach them to value others more than what
their parents buy for them.

Amy

----Original Message Follows---- 
From: Joshua Nieuwsma 
To: asmoucha@hotmail.com, vision 
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] public schools & indoctrination 
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:30:48 -0800 (PST) 

I would almost wonder if you didn't really experience life as a child. Most children I
know of, and my own memories, vouch for the fact that personal property is extremely
important to children. If you want to teach what you call sharing, you don't do it by
giving everyone everything. You do it by withholding. And it is wrong to teach children
that what their parents buy for them really belongs to others. The problem is not the
teaching of sharing, which is considered a virtue by itself, the problem is the lack of
teaching about gratefulness. We are to be grateful for what we have, and then we should
be taught to ask to use something that belongs to someone else. It's not automatically
ours just because we didn't get one from our mommies. It starts in the small things, Amy.
I sincerely hope you keep your current opinion about not having kids. To be frank, they
would grow up spoiled little brats. Just like most Americans today. Hmm.... wonder if
there is a connecti! on between preschool 
and attitude problems after all... 

And I for one know exactly what people of the next generation will be doing when you're
in a wheelchair or wishing for physical therapy. They will be swearing at "that old lady
in the care center" that they have to go visit in order to get enough community hours to
get the scholarship that they think they already deserve. They'll be fighting lawsuits to
get their neighbor's BMW, they'll be suing Applebees for not providing the same food that
their friends in Lewiston get. They won't understand what's behind the invented virtue of
sharing at all. And it's not sharing anyhow. Kindness and generosity is not "sharing". It
is giving of what you have to others, and not expecting anything, Anything back. Sharing
as a "virtue" seems to me to be really part of the impossible liberal utopia, not a true
fruit of the Spirit. 

sincerely, 

Joshua Nieuwsma 

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