[Vision2020] Posting to Vision2020
Dale Courtney
dmcourtn@moscow.com
Thu, 6 Nov 2003 09:33:07 -0800
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Amy,
=20
I'm more than willing to drop this thread.=20
=20
First, please realize that I was not the one who started it. The =
question
was asked by Janesta:=20
"The thinig I wonder about all these emails that fly back and forth with
such a fury all day long, is this... How many of you are doing this from
work, and is your work supported by tax dollars? My dollars?"
Second, if you don't mind government workers chatting on personal email =
all
day while on "the clock", then I'm more than willing to let it go.=20
=20
Best,
Dale
=20
_____ =20
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of amy smoucha
Sent: Thursday, 06 November, 2003 09:22
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Posting to Vision2020
This new thread is so useless, I am tempted once again to unsubscribe. =
I
thought this listserve was supposed to foster communication between =
people
in Moscow. Mr. Courtney, your posts do nothing but try to shut down
communication, and are immature personal attacks. It's so pathetic, =
it's
hard to take. We are now in a George Orwell novel, and it's not ok. =
Folks
at the university, at community organizations, retirees, faith =
communities .
. . we need all of them if our discussions are to strengthen this
community. I resent anyone who attempts to shut down and restrict =
people
from posting. Responsible adults manage their work time and break time
appropriately, and we are all responsible adults. Stop using petty =
attacks
to reduce all of us.
Can we please just drop this whole meaningless thread and get back to =
using
the listserve for discussion of community issues?
Amy
----Original Message Follows----=20
From: "Dale Courtney"=20
To:=20
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Posting to Vision2020=20
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:27:05 -0800=20
Tom H. wrote:=20
> > The issue is punching a time card and the taxpayers reasonably=20
> > expecting that someone is actually working as opposed to=20
> responding to=20
> > Vision2020 emails and surfing the web all day long.=20
>=20
> Every business, whether it be public or private, has=20
> established working hours. At UI (during the fall, winter,=20
> and spring), these hours are from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM (Monday=20
> thru Friday excluding holidays) with an hour off for lunch=20
> (and one 15 minute-break each before and after lunch).=20
What are the UI standards for personal use of computers and computer =
time=20
for doing personal work (Vision2020, surfing web, etc)?=20
And is this a school-wide policy? Or varies from manager to manager.=20
If there's a policy, please point me to it. I'd like to read it.=20
> Again, regardless if an employee is on salary or a wage=20
> earner, (s)he is expected to be "on the job". Thus, time=20
> management has been defined.=20
Tom, this really is simplistic. The *reason* that faculty don't punch =
the=20
clock is because they are often doing research; teaching part-time; not=20
teaching at all; teaching overloads (and only get paid full time);=20
professional readings; etc.=20
So, while you may *think* that the two are the same, they are completely =
different -- hence the expectations, responsibilities, and even the =
manner=20
of being paid (punching a time clock; taking breaks; being tenured; etc) =
is=20
*completely* different.=20
Oh, and FWIW, staff and faculty are typically paid from different pots =
of=20
money. I don't know how the UI does it, but I'd be surprised if it's not =
the
same there.=20
If you would like, I'd be glad to do an analysis of *all* UI staff =
employees
who post to Vision2020. Just send me their names (I don't know who they =
are)
and I'll do a full spreadsheet and graph for you -- pro bono.=20
Best,=20
Dale=20
_____________________________________________________=20
List services made available by First Step Internet,=20
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.=20
http://www.fsr.net=20
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
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_____ =20
Concerned that messages may <http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2734??PS=3D> =
bounce
because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage!
_____________________________________________________ List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D2>Amy,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D2>I'm more than willing to drop this thread.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#800000 size=3D2>First, please realize that I was <U>not</U> the =
one who=20
started it. The question was asked by Janesta: </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D572572817-06112003><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#ff0000 size=3D2><STRONG>"<FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The =
thinig I wonder=20
about all these emails that fly back and forth with such a fury all =
day long,=20
is this... How many of you are doing this from work, and is your work=20
supported by tax dollars? My=20
dollars?</FONT>"</STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D572572817-06112003>Second, if you don't mind government workers =
chatting=20
on personal email all day while on "the clock", then I'm more than =
willing to=20
let it go. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D572572817-06112003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial>Best,</FONT><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Vladimir Script"=20
size=3D5>Dale</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> vision2020-admin@moscow.com=20
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>amy=20
smoucha<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 06 November, 2003 =
09:22<BR><B>To:</B>=20
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Posting to=20
Vision2020<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>This new thread is so useless, I am tempted once again to=20
unsubscribe. I thought this listserve was supposed to foster=20
communication between people in Moscow. Mr. Courtney, your posts =
do=20
nothing but try to shut down communication, and are immature personal=20
attacks. It's so pathetic, it's hard to take. We are now =
in a=20
George Orwell novel, and it's not ok. Folks at the university, =
at=20
community organizations, retirees, faith communities . . . we need all =
of them=20
if our discussions are to strengthen this community. I =
resent=20
anyone who attempts to shut down and restrict people from =
posting. =20
Responsible adults manage their work time and break time =
appropriately, and we=20
are all responsible adults. Stop using petty attacks to reduce =
all of=20
us.</P>
<P>Can we please just drop this whole meaningless thread and get back =
to using=20
the listserve for discussion of community issues?</P>
<P>Amy<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>----Original Message Follows----=20
<DIV></DIV>From: "Dale Courtney" <DMCOURTN@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Posting to Vision2020=20
<DIV></DIV>Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 06:27:05 -0800=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Tom H. wrote:=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> > The issue is punching a time card and the =
taxpayers=20
reasonably=20
<DIV></DIV>> > expecting that someone is actually working as =
opposed to=20
<DIV></DIV>> responding to=20
<DIV></DIV>> > Vision2020 emails and surfing the web all day =
long.=20
<DIV></DIV>>=20
<DIV></DIV>> Every business, whether it be public or private, has=20
<DIV></DIV>> established working hours. At UI (during the fall, =
winter,=20
<DIV></DIV>> and spring), these hours are from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM =
(Monday=20
<DIV></DIV>> thru Friday excluding holidays) with an hour off for =
lunch=20
<DIV></DIV>> (and one 15 minute-break each before and after lunch). =
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>What are the UI standards for personal use of computers and =
computer time=20
<DIV></DIV>for doing personal work (Vision2020, surfing web, etc)?=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>And is this a school-wide policy? Or varies from manager to =
manager.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>If there's a policy, please point me to it. I'd like to =
read it.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>> Again, regardless if an employee is on salary or a =
wage=20
<DIV></DIV>> earner, (s)he is expected to be "on the job". Thus, =
time=20
<DIV></DIV>> management has been defined.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Tom, this really is simplistic. The *reason* that faculty =
don't=20
punch the=20
<DIV></DIV>clock is because they are often doing research; teaching =
part-time;=20
not=20
<DIV></DIV>teaching at all; teaching overloads (and only get paid full =
time);=20
<DIV></DIV>professional readings; etc.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>So, while you may *think* that the two are the same, they =
are=20
completely=20
<DIV></DIV>different -- hence the expectations, responsibilities, and =
even the=20
manner=20
<DIV></DIV>of being paid (punching a time clock; taking breaks; being =
tenured;=20
etc) is=20
<DIV></DIV>*completely* different.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Oh, and FWIW, staff and faculty are typically paid from =
different=20
pots of=20
<DIV></DIV>money. I don't know how the UI does it, but I'd be =
surprised if=20
it's not the=20
<DIV></DIV>same there.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>If you would like, I'd be glad to do an analysis of *all* =
UI staff=20
employees=20
<DIV></DIV>who post to Vision2020. Just send me their names (I don't =
know who=20
they are)=20
<DIV></DIV>and I'll do a full spreadsheet and graph for you -- pro =
bono.=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Best,=20
<DIV></DIV>Dale=20
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>_____________________________________________________=20
<DIV></DIV>List services made available by First Step Internet,=20
<DIV></DIV>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.=20
<DIV></DIV>http://www.fsr.net=20
<DIV></DIV>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
=
<DIV></DIV>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=20
<DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
<HR>
<A href=3D"http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2734??PS=3D">Concerned that =
messages may=20
bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra =
Storage!=20
</A>_____________________________________________________ List =
services made=20
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the =
Palouse since=20
1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
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