[Vision2020] Religious Diversity Education
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 29 May 2003 23:53:52 -0700
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<P>Luke,</P>
<P>With the exception of "I believe in Christ, and thus I must treat others as I would be treated. I believe there was a sacrifice for my sins, and therefore I must realize that I am undeserving of all good things. Therefore, when others offend me, I must forgive, forgive, forgive. If everyone were to live as though God had forgiven them of all their sins, then would peace come." </P></DIV>
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<P>that you state at the end of your email, I disagree with everything you have to say and must debate you on. </P>
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<P>You stated that:</P>
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<P>"There is such a thing as absolute truth, and either a religion is true, or it isn't."</P>
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<P>Since all "religions" not faiths are based on human creation, would you then not say that all religions are false?</P>
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<P>You seem to contradict yourself with the following two statements:</P>
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<P>"But you could say the same about numerous issues on which people hold opinionated and inflexible views: gay marriage, the death penalty, the war in Iraq, topless women. Why waste time discussing these issues when it is rarely anyone budges from their opinions?"</P>
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<P>and <BR>"If you found yourself locked in a huge maze with millions of confused people and you found the one way out, then what's wrong with retracing your steps and helping others to find the exit too?"</P>
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<P>To me, that seems to be what Ted is doing, he is against the war in Iraq because he believes it is wrong, and has "found the way out". It makes no sense to say ignore issues that are wrong and kill people or deny civil liberties but at the same time try to say you are following your God. That is unless your God is about killing people and denying them their civil liberties. In which case you would want to divert attention and not debate these things. Debate brings out the truth. </P>
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<P>Your next comment of :</P>
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<P>"Muslims believe that their god is he only one, and that they have the right to kill the "dogs and infidels" that resist their religion, so they fly planes into towers and kill thousands.",</P>
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<P>is extremely unfair, arrogant, and badly misinformed. Yes, a small handful of people professing the "Muslim Faith" did a very evil and horrible thing to thousands of innocent people. But the main stream Muslim faith does "NOT" preach this idea (and I challenge you to produce such documentation). Nor do most Muslims walk around with a backpack full of explosives waiting for security to relax its guard so they can blow up a bunch of white christian folk in Idaho like our dear beloved Governor believes. </P>
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<P>In case you were not watching, all of the major nations of the world that have a majority of Muslims denounced the actions of this Osama Bin Laudin and his followers(by the way, he is still out and about, why hasn't Bush got him yet). To say this about Muslims is to be extremely unfair. Let us not forget that it was also a small handful of evil people that professed the 'Christian faith" that started TWO world wars, developed the atomic bomb and dropped it twice on innocent civilians, wiped out entire races of people in the Western Hemisphere (on purpose) and raged war almost constantly for one thousand years in Europe, all in the name of "Christian faith". This has nothing to do with any "religious faith". What it has to do with is a few people that gain power and use "Religion" as an excuse for their horrible acts against humanity and God's children that are unjustifiable to anyone under any other rationality other then religion. </P>
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<P>Your other statement seems extremely far fetched:</P>
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<P>"Children are taught in schools that there is no god, and that they are simply higher-evolved animals. . ."</P>
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<P>I don't think you have been in school if you think this. I was taught math, english, science, history, government, and economics in school. Sure in science they say this is "what" science has to tell us about human and world history. But they never said their was "no god", and all of the science teachers when I asked them personally believed in god. I was taught about God separate from school at my Church and what it believed about creation and evolution. </P>
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<P>To me the idea that there is either a "God or Science" is a "false dilemma." They don't contradict unless you believe in a direct literal interpretation of the Bible. Which I think shows a lack of understanding of the bible if you believe that considering that the bible starts off with two stories of creation that directly contradict themselves when taken literally. The first story of creation says that all the animals were created first, then humans. The second story of creation says that Adam was created first then the animals. From a spiritual viewpoint this makes total sense, for a "Science" point of view this makes absolutely no sense. </P>
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<P>Public schools should not teach about religion because choosing God is a choice. It is pointless to teach people about God if they do not believe in it. The entire point to accepting God is to "Freely" do so. You can not force people to accept God and Jesus Christ as your savior. Forcing people to do so will only create the contempt for him that young people have for Math, Science, English, History, and Government that already exists. If they want to learn about him and except him then they have plenty of opportunities to do so. </P>
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<P>Finally:</P>
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<P>"Right, and people need to realize there is only one true religion". </P>
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<P>They do, their religion. :)</P>
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<P> </P>
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<P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "Luke" <LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: "Ted Moffett" <TED_MOFFETT@HOTMAIL.COM>, "vision2020" <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Religious Diversity Education
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:34:20 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>>Hello, Ted:
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<DIV></DIV>> On the issue of being openminded to all religions and teaching all
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<DIV></DIV>>religions, we need to keep something in mind: there is only one true faith.
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<DIV></DIV>>There is such a thing as absolute truth, and either a religion is true, or
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<DIV></DIV>>it isn't. But they can't all be true at once - that is Pantheism. Allah
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<DIV></DIV>>can't be the only god at the same time as the 30 million Hindu gods (that's
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<DIV></DIV>>no hyperbole, BTW), at the same time as the trinitarian God! And since there
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<DIV></DIV>>is only one truth, we need to find it. And when you've found it, you should
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<DIV></DIV>>steer others towards it.
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<DIV></DIV>> If you found yourself locked in a huge maze with millions of confused
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<DIV></DIV>>people and you found the one way out, then what's wrong with retracing your
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<DIV></DIV>>steps and helping others to find the exit too?
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<DIV></DIV>> > But you could say the same about numerous issues on which people hold
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<DIV></DIV>> > opinionated and inflexible views: gay marriage, the death penalty, the war
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<DIV></DIV>> > in Iraq, topless women. Why waste time discussing these issues when it is
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<DIV></DIV>> > rarely anyone budges from their opinions?
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<DIV></DIV>>Because people live out what they believe. Muslims believe that their god is
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<DIV></DIV>>the only one, and that they have the right to kill the "dogs and infidels"
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<DIV></DIV>>that resist their religion, so they fly planes into towers and kill
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<DIV></DIV>>thousands. Children are taught in schools that there is no god, and that
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<DIV></DIV>>they are simply higher-evolved animals, and one day some of them come to
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<DIV></DIV>>school and do what happens in nature all the time - they kill others of
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<DIV></DIV>>their species! We need to discuss these things because your theology comes
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<DIV></DIV>>out of your fingertips, and some can be persuaded to turn toward the light.
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<DIV></DIV>>(And no, I don't hate Muslims.)
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<DIV></DIV>> > No wonder the human race still is acting at the moral level of "cavemen"
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<DIV></DIV>>at
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<DIV></DIV>> > each others throats while we have the science and technology to kill
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<DIV></DIV>> > everyone on earth. People avoid honest open-minded debate about the
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<DIV></DIV>> > fundamental ideologies and values, the underlying psychology and
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<DIV></DIV>> > spirituality, that we use to adapt to the realities of human life, when
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<DIV></DIV>> > these spiritual differences are at the core of human conflicts.
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<DIV></DIV>>Right, and people need to realize there is only one true religion. When we
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<DIV></DIV>>all believe the same thing and live like it, then will peace come. I believe
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<DIV></DIV>>in Christ, and thus I must treat others as I would be treated. I believe
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<DIV></DIV>>there was a sacrifice for my sins, and therefore I must realize that I am
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<DIV></DIV>>undeserving of all good things. Therefore, when others offend me, I must
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<DIV></DIV>>forgive, forgive, forgive. If everyone were to live as though God had
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<DIV></DIV>>forgiven them of all their sins, then would peace come.
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<DIV></DIV>>Luke Nieuwsma
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