[Vision2020] Re: Public Schools 15-year
Melynda Huskey
mghuskey@hotmail.com
Thu, 8 May 2003 22:35:48 -0700
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My goodness, education money's just spurting all over Idaho--we're throwi=
ng it at problems, we're pumping it like we're Naylor Farms, we're droppi=
ng it in the potty and flushing it in huge handfuls . . . we're the Old F=
aithful of education funding, a hissing and a byword among the nations fo=
r our riotous, orgiastic spending on schools.
Now, back to planet Earth.
Without pausing to consider whether appeals to statistics are inherently =
less manipulative than appeals to emotion, let's stipulate that there *ma=
y* be a point at which more money isn't helpful to education, but there i=
s certainly a point at which lack of money is significantly detrimental. =
It's just plain silly to keep saying that funding does not affect the qu=
ality of an education. If you need evidence, Jonathan Kozol's fine book =
*Savage Inequalities* makes the point about as clear as it can be.
That said, I'm inclined to side with John Danahy. Idaho schools generall=
y need more money for education--provided that it's spent on education, a=
nd not on high-priced intermural sports, administrative salaries, or spec=
ulative real estate deals. We could save tons simply by refusing to wast=
e 450 minutes of instructional time each year for every child from grade =
2 to grade 12 on the ISATs.
Access to a print-rich environment is the most significant factor affecti=
ng reading level in children. If libraries in schools and communities ar=
e poorly funded, children's reading suffers.
Let's take turns chucking cash at the Moscow Public Library and the schoo=
l libraries in our community!
Melynda Huskey
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harrell
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:13 PM
To: thansen@moscow.com; Dale Courtney; vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE:_[Vision2020]_Re:_[Vision2020]_Idaho Public =
Schools 15-year Trends
Appealing to your emotions is quite heart warming to us all,
it shows that you base your actions on your feelings rather
than your mind. This is very scary because it shows how easily
you can be manipulated.
The fact is, money has been pumped into the system at ever
increasing rates for years, while education results have been =20
going down. So throwing more money wont necessarily fix the
problem. The history shows that more money doesnt increase
educational *quality*.
Cheers!
John Harrell
--- Tom Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:
> Greetings Visionaires -
> =20
> While reading Mr. Courtney's response, below, I almost broke out into a=
n
> uncontrollable laugh until I realized that he actually feels that way.
> Scary, isn't it?
> =20
> Our children, our future . . .
> =20
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> =20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com=
]On
> > Behalf Of Dale Courtney
> > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:02 AM
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Public Schools 15-year
> > Trends
> >
> >
> > Arnold wrote:
> > > Thinking that if we strip our schools of teachers won't effect
> > the quality
> > > of the education a child is receiving is just fooling oneself
> > so they can
> > > sleep at night instead of realizing that they are screwing
> > children out of
> > > an education that the generation before them worked and slaved over=
to
> > give
> > > them when they were children in the public school system.
> > >
> > > Would it not be great if people thought, "How can I selflessly help=
my
> > > community" Rather then "How can I come up a with a graph, chart, or
> > > statistic I can use to justify my lack of sacrificing for
> > others and spend
> > > more time, energy, and wealth, on myself"
> >
> > Interesting how liberals *refuse* to interact with ideas but rush to
> > judgment. Ah, the intolerance of the tolerant!
> >
> > The bottom line: government school spending *after taxes* has risen b=
y 80%
> > *per child* in the last 15 years in the state of Idaho; and state tes=
t
> > scores have continued to drop. Prove me wrong.
> >
> > *If* liberals really think that spending is the causal driver, then y=
ou
> > would have seen test scores rising, not falling with more money.
> >
> > *Clearly*, if you think that money is the problem (that money drives
> > achievement), then cutting the budget is the only solution.
> >
> > However, if you were to get your heads out of the sand, you'd see
> > that money
> > is *not* the problem here. However, I'm sure you'd rather discuss
> > form over
> > substance. How visionary of you.
> >
> > Best,
> > Dale Courtney
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
> =20
> _____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet, =20
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. =20
> http://www.fsr.net =20
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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List services made available by First Step Internet, =20
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. =20
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>My goodness, e=
ducation money's just spurting all over Idaho--we're throwing it at probl=
ems, we're pumping it like we're Naylor Farms, we're dropping it in the p=
otty and flushing it in huge handfuls . . . we're the Old Faithful of edu=
cation funding, a hissing and a byword among the nations for our riotous,=
orgiastic spending on schools.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, back to=
planet Earth.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Without pausing to consider w=
hether appeals to statistics are inherently less manipulative than appeal=
s to emotion, let's stipulate that there *may* be a point at which more m=
oney isn't helpful to education, but there is certainly a point at which =
lack of money is significantly detrimental. It's just plain silly t=
o keep saying that funding does not affect the quality of an education.&n=
bsp; If you need evidence, Jonathan Kozol's fine book *Savage Inequalitie=
s* makes the point about as clear as it can be.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <=
DIV>That said, I'm inclined to side with John Danahy. Idaho sc=
hools generally need more money for education--provided that it's spent o=
n education, and not on high-priced intermural sports, administrative sal=
aries, or speculative real estate deals. We could save tons simply =
by refusing to waste 450 minutes of instructional time each year for=
every child from grade 2 to grade 12 on the ISATs.</DIV> <DIV> </DI=
V> <DIV>Access to a print-rich environment is the most significant f=
actor affecting reading level in children. If libraries in schools =
and communities are poorly funded, children's reading suffers.</DIV> <DIV=
> </DIV> <DIV>Let's take turns chucking cash at the Moscow Public Li=
brary and the school libraries in our community!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> =
<DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-=
RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px=
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Origina=
l Message -----</DIV> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial=
; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> John Harrell</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt =
Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:13 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"F=
ONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> thansen@moscow.com; Dale Courtney; vision2020=
@moscow.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vi=
sion2020] RE:_[Vision2020]_Re:_[Vision2020]_Idaho Public Schools 15-year =
Trends</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Appealing to your emotions is quite heart w=
arming to us all,<BR>it shows that you base your actions on your feelings=
rather<BR>than your mind. This is very scary because it shows how easily=
<BR>you can be manipulated.<BR><BR>The fact is, money has been pumped int=
o the system at ever<BR>increasing rates for years, while education resul=
ts have been <BR>going down. So throwing more money wont necessarily fix =
the<BR>problem. The history shows that more money doesnt increase<BR>educ=
ational *quality*.<BR><BR>Cheers!<BR>John Harrell<BR><BR><BR><BR>--- Tom =
Hansen <thansen@moscow.com> wrote:<BR>> Greetings Visionaires -<=
BR>> <BR>> While reading Mr. Courtney's response, below, I almost b=
roke out into an<BR>> uncontrollable laugh until I realized that he ac=
tually feels that way.<BR>> Scary, isn't it?<BR>> <BR>> Our chil=
dren, our future . . .<BR>> <BR>> Tom Hansen<BR>> Moscow, Idaho<=
BR>> <BR>> > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > From: visio=
n2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On<BR>> >=
; Behalf Of Dale Courtney<BR>> > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 5:02 =
AM<BR>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > Subject: [Vision20=
20] Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Public Schools 15-year<BR>> > Trends<BR>=
> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Arnold wrote:<BR>> > > Think=
ing that if we strip our schools of teachers won't effect<BR>> > th=
e quality<BR>> > > of the education a child is receiving is just=
fooling oneself<BR>> > so they can<BR>> > > sleep at nigh=
t instead of realizing that they are screwing<BR>> > children out o=
f<BR>> > > an education that the generation before them worked a=
nd slaved over to<BR>> > give<BR>> > > them when they were=
children in the public school system.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >=
; Would it not be great if people thought, "How can I selflessly help my<=
BR>> > > community" Rather then "How can I come up a with a grap=
h, chart, or<BR>> > > statistic I can use to justify my lack of =
sacrificing for<BR>> > others and spend<BR>> > > more time=
, energy, and wealth, on myself"<BR>> ><BR>> > Interesting ho=
w liberals *refuse* to interact with ideas but rush to<BR>> > judgm=
ent. Ah, the intolerance of the tolerant!<BR>> ><BR>> > The b=
ottom line: government school spending *after taxes* has risen by 80%<BR>=
> > *per child* in the last 15 years in the state of Idaho; and sta=
te test<BR>> > scores have continued to drop. Prove me wrong.<BR>&g=
t; ><BR>> > *If* liberals really think that spending is the caus=
al driver, then you<BR>> > would have seen test scores rising, not =
falling with more money.<BR>> ><BR>> > *Clearly*, if you thin=
k that money is the problem (that money drives<BR>> > achievement),=
then cutting the budget is the only solution.<BR>> ><BR>> > =
However, if you were to get your heads out of the sand, you'd see<BR>>=
> that money<BR>> > is *not* the problem here. However, I'm sur=
e you'd rather discuss<BR>> > form over<BR>> > substance. How=
visionary of you.<BR>> ><BR>> > Best,<BR>> > Dale Cour=
tney<BR>> > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> ><BR>> > _______________=
______________________________________<BR>> > List services m=
ade available by First Step Internet,<BR>> > serving the comm=
unities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>> > &n=
bsp; http://w=
ww.fsr.net<BR>> > &n=
bsp; mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > ////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////<BR>> ><BR>> <BR>> _________=
____________________________________________<BR>> List services =
made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communi=
ties of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> &nb=
sp; htt=
p://www.fsr.net &nbs=
p;  =
; <BR>> ma=
ilto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> //////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you Y=
ahoo!?<BR>The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.<BR>http://search=
.yahoo.com<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<B=
R>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the co=
mmunities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR> &n=
bsp; http://w=
ww.fsr.net &nb=
sp; <BR=
> mailto:Vision2020=
@moscow.com<BR>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////<BR><=
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