[Vision2020] MSD financial condition

Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:43:21 -0800

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Mike,=20
=20
If I may -- a quick response to your points:=20

1.	Downsizing (or "right-sizing", as is the politically correct term
these days) goes for government business across the board -- including
schools. With enrollment down 13 percent, it doesn't make sense.=20
2.	I'm asking the question of whether the tax payers have gotten the
entire story and know all the information. Personally, I doubt it. As =
long
as liberals wave signs saying "Invest in Our Children", the war is waged =
on
emotions and not on the data.=20
3.	Buildings are fixed costs. It is irresponsible to slash the budget
86.2% in Facilities (and increase the budget in Support Services) and =
then
complain about the buildings "falling apart." Duh! But what MSD did was =
to
shift the money from facilities to salaries. Why? Because you can ask =
the
public for a levy to support the dilapidated buildings; they'll vote one
down for teacher salaries.=20
4.	Not only should MSD look at a reduction in teachers, they should
implement one!  Teachers are a variable cost. The variable ("product") =
is
students. If the student population is down 13 percent (390), then the
teachers/staff should be down 13 percent.=20
5.	You discuss increased class sizes. Let's talk about increased class
sizes after MSD "right-sizes" by 13 percent. Until that time, you've =
already
accomplished an increase in the teacher:student ratio (by 13%).=20

Best,
Dale

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Mike Curley
Sent: Thursday, 27 March, 2003 09:03
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] MSD financial condition

Dale, and others:
Just a couple of points of information for what they are worth:
1. There are two significant voter-determined reasons why more cost =
savings
have not been realized by MSD as enrollment has declined: neighborhood
schools and class sizes. Parents have voted extra money (by levies) to =
keep
4 elementary schools open and to hold class sizes in elementary classes =
and
secondary "core" classes in the range of 20 - 23 students (average). =
There
are, of course, other economic and political reasons why costs have been
reduced relatively (in constant dollars) but they usually have had less =
to
do with voter decision-making.
Last year, in order to reduce costs and lower the proposed levy, MSD
"consolidated" West Park and Russell elementary schools into a single =
K-6
program. No one particularly wanted to do that from either an =
educational or
community perspective. Parents, teachers, administrators, and the school
board were reluctant to make that move. There were those who said voters
would have supported a larger levy to allow both to remain K-6 schools. =
Some
said an elementary school should have been closed altogether and the 4
elementary schools consolidated into 3. In the long run, enrollment, =
state
funding levels and perhaps another levy will determine whether MSD moves
back to 4 elementaries (K-6) or whether further consolidation is =
necessary.

2. One can say "you cannot askMoscow taxpayers to increase property =
taxes"
but the comment contains its own contradiction. It is the Moscow =
taxpayers
(at least 50% of those who have voted in the past) who have put the tax
level where it is. As taxpayers we are an unruly bunch. There are those =
who
believe that there should be no public education system (notwithstanding =
the
Idaho Constitution's requirement), so they will always vote against a =
levy;
there are those who will vote for nearly any levy MSD proposes; and =
there
are a majority who fall somewhere between those extremes. It is very
difficult for a school board and administration to know what the =
majority
will pay to run the district, particularly when the multitude may be
screaming "I'll vote to fund this program, but not that one."

3. Donovan may have engaged in a little hyperbole when he said the
district's buildings are falling apart. That is not true as I understand
"falling apart" even when it is used figuratively. They are not in a =
state
of significant disrepair even individually. Money IS needed to maintain =
the
community's investment in them. As with most any capital asset the cost =
of
repair can multiply when maintenance is ignored. The motor oil =
commercial
that ends with "pay me now or pay me later" can aptly be applied to the
situation. Every year budgets for maintenance, technology (increasingly
expensive and necessary), and curriculum (books, educational materials,
staff training to maintain an educational continuum from grade to grade)
take a hit at the expense of other programs. Sooner or later on of those
chickens may come home to roost if appropriate funding is not =
maintained.

4. The district is already looking at the possibility of staff =
reductions
for next year. Programs may find themselves with less money, or a few =
might
be cut altogether. Of course, the district could propose another levy =
and a
group (as Citizens for Quality Education) may demand that one be put on =
the
ballot.=20

5. Salaries and benefits. Add to point 1 above that staff has received
salary and benefit increases annually and you have a big part of the =
funding
equation. If the annual operating budget is $16M, salary and benefits
account for about $13.6M of that. Inflation only applies to the other =
$2.4M.
A 1% s & b increase costs $136,000, which means the loss of about 2.3
teaching positions or cuts somewhere else in the budget. Last night's =
Daily
News said that the superintendent "warned there also may be a freeze on
salaries...." The article wasn't clear whether she was referring only to
district salaries or to a mandate that may come out of Boise. One thing =
we
know is that if s & b increases that money isn't being spent somewhere =
else.
Either teaching positions have to be lost (result: increased class size =
&/or
more students moved to other buildings) or programs have to be cut or
operated on less funding. Nothing pretty about any of it.

Mike Curley

On 27 Mar 03, at 5:27, Dale Courtney wrote:

From: "Dale Courtney" <dale@courtneys.us>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] MSD financial condition
Date sent: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 05:27:12 -0800

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ]=20

Donovan,

A couple comments:=20

* State funding for education has not, not, not been
drastically cut. That's a lie that someone has been feeding
you. State Funding has increased every year since 1989, and
is now at 170% of the 1989 funding level.=20

* However, our student enrollment at MSD has been on a sharp
decline (390 students; 13% in 5 years). State funding is
linked to the number of students (duh!).=20

* Why has the cost of education significantly in creased
over the last 10 years? Was it to increase our test scores?
The test scores have decreased every year for the last 13
years. In fact, it's down 7 percent.=20

* Can you tell me why total staff has increased 52% while
the enrollment in Idaho has only increased 16 percent?=20

* Do you know why the buildings/facilities at MSD are
falling apart? Could it be that MSD slashed that part of the
budget (by 86.2%) while increasing support services 4
percent? What MSD did was to shift out $1,062,259 from
facilities into instruction/support costs. Playing a cup
game by shifting funds doesn't put the blame on the tax
payers?=20

* Riddle me this: Are buildings/facilities fixed costs or
variable costs? Are students fixed costs or variable costs?=20

More to ponder.=20

I'd like to ask the local liberals to think out of the box
for a while. Look at the numbers and deal with reality. You
cannot ask the Moscow taxpayers to continue to increase
property taxes (mine right at 50% for government school
support) when the enrollment continues to decrease.=20

Best,
Dale

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan
Arnold Sent: Wednesday, 26 March, 2003 22:44 To:
dale@courtneys.us; vision2020@moscow.com Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] MSD financial condition

Dale,=20

The reason why education is hurting, regardless of the 5-10
students less per grade between K-12 is four fold:

1) The state funding for education has been drastically
cut. This means that the local area governments must make
for this difference. That means the property owner.

2) The cost of education has significatly increased over the
last ten years, about 100-200%

3) Often times the number of students helps, not hurts, the
education districts because the state divides the amount of
state aid according to the population. If Moscow has a
decrease in population and CD'A, Boise, Eagle, and Sandpoint
have an increase, Moscow get an even smaller percentage of
the state funding pie, this pie is also smaller.

4) The buildings and facilities are falling apart, it costs
a great deal to rebuild and maintain them.=20

I really think you need to do more research then looking at
just government documents that are often misleading or
broken up into pieces that don't always seem how they look.
UI books are the worst, but Moscow does not keep the
greatest of records either. Budgets are tricky and
complicated and other only projected costs, a best guess so
to speak. The only numbers that are usually reliable and
understandable are the ones that definitions and are two or
three years. Do you really think we have any idea as to how
many students there will be MSD in 2005 or 2006?

Donovan Arnold

_____________________________________________________ List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////=20

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D953453221-27032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Mike,=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953453221-27032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>If I=20
may -- a quick response to your points: </DIV>
<OL>
 <LI>Downsizing (or "right-sizing", as is the politically correct =
term these=20
 days) goes for government business across the board -- including =
schools. With=20
 enrollment down 13 percent, it doesn't make sense. </LI>
 <LI>I'm=20
 asking the question of whether the tax payers have gotten the entire =
story and=20
 know all the information. Personally, I doubt it. As long as liberals =
wave=20
 signs saying "Invest in Our Children", the war is waged on emotions =
and not on=20
 the data. </LI>
 <LI>Buildings are fixed costs. It is irresponsible =
to slash=20
 the budget 86.2% in Facilities (and increase the budget in Support =
Services)=20
 and then complain about the buildings "falling apart." Duh! But what =
MSD did=20
 was to shift the money from facilities to salaries. Why? Because you =
can ask=20
 the public for a levy to support the dilapidated buildings; they'll =
vote one=20
 down for teacher salaries. </LI>
 <LI>Not=20
 only should MSD look at a reduction in teachers, they should implement =

one!&nbsp; Teachers are a variable cost. The variable ("product") is =
students.=20
 If the student population is down 13 percent (390), then the =
teachers/staff=20
 should be down 13 percent. </LI>
 <LI>You=20
 discuss increased class sizes. Let's talk about increased class sizes=20
 after MSD "right-sizes" by 13 percent. Until that time, you've =
already=20
 accomplished an increase in the teacher:student ratio (by 13%).=20
 </LI></OL>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D953453221-27032003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Dale</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
 <DIV></DIV>
 <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
 face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message----- From:=20
 vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On =
Behalf=20
 Of Mike Curley Sent: Thursday, 27 March, 2003=20
 09:03 To: vision2020@moscow.com Subject: RE: =
[Vision2020]=20
 MSD financial condition </DIV>Dale, and others: Just =
a couple=20
 of points of information for what they are worth: 1. There are two=20
 significant voter-determined reasons why more cost savings have not =
been=20
 realized by MSD as enrollment has declined: neighborhood schools and =
class=20
 sizes. Parents have voted extra money (by levies) to keep 4 elementary =
schools=20
 open and to hold class sizes in elementary classes and secondary =
"core"=20
 classes in the range of 20 - 23 students (average). There are, of =
course,=20
 other economic and political reasons why costs have been reduced =
relatively=20
 (in constant dollars) but they usually have had less to do with voter=20
 decision-making. Last year, in order to reduce costs and lower the =
proposed=20
 levy, MSD "consolidated" West Park and Russell elementary schools into =
a=20
 single K-6 program. No one particularly wanted to do that from either =
an=20
 educational or community perspective. Parents, teachers, =
administrators, and=20
 the school board were reluctant to make that move. There were those =
who said=20
 voters would have supported a larger levy to allow both to remain K-6 =
schools.=20
 Some said an elementary school should have been closed altogether and =
the 4=20
 elementary schools consolidated into 3. In the long run, enrollment, =
state=20
 funding levels and perhaps another levy will determine whether MSD =
moves back=20
 to 4 elementaries (K-6) or whether further consolidation is=20
 necessary. 2. One can say "you cannot askMoscow taxpayers to =
increase=20
 property taxes" but the comment contains its own contradiction. It is =
the=20
 Moscow taxpayers (at least 50% of those who have voted in the past) =
who have=20
 put the tax level where it is. As taxpayers we are an unruly bunch. =
There are=20
 those who believe that there should be no public education system=20
 (notwithstanding the Idaho Constitution's requirement), so they will =
always=20
 vote against a levy; there are those who will vote for nearly any levy =
MSD=20
 proposes; and there are a majority who fall somewhere between those =
extremes.=20
 It is very difficult for a school board and administration to know =
what the=20
 majority will pay to run the district, particularly when the multitude =
may be=20
 screaming "I'll vote to fund this program, but not that =
one." 3.=20
 Donovan may have engaged in a little hyperbole when he said the =
district's=20
 buildings are falling apart. That is not true as I understand "falling =
apart"=20
 even when it is used figuratively. They are not in a state of =
significant=20
 disrepair even individually. Money IS needed to maintain the =
community's=20
 investment in them. As with most any capital asset the cost of repair =
can=20
 multiply when maintenance is ignored. The motor oil commercial that =
ends with=20
 "pay me now or pay me later" can aptly be applied to the situation. =
Every year=20
 budgets for maintenance, technology (increasingly expensive and =
necessary),=20
 and curriculum (books, educational materials, staff training to =
maintain an=20
 educational continuum from grade to grade) take a hit at the expense =
of other=20
 programs. Sooner or later on of those chickens may come home to roost =
if=20
 appropriate funding is not maintained. 4. The district is =
already=20
 looking at the possibility of staff reductions for next year. Programs =
may=20
 find themselves with less money, or a few might be cut altogether. Of =
course,=20
 the district could propose another levy and a group (as Citizens for =
Quality=20
 Education) may demand that one be put on the ballot. 5. =
Salaries and=20
 benefits. Add to point 1 above that staff has received salary and =
benefit=20
 increases annually and you have a big part of the funding equation. If =
the=20
 annual operating budget is $16M, salary and benefits account for about =
$13.6M=20
 of that. Inflation only applies to the other $2.4M. A 1% s &amp; b =
increase=20
 costs $136,000, which means the loss of about 2.3 teaching positions =
or cuts=20
 somewhere else in the budget. Last night's Daily News said that the=20
 superintendent "warned there also may be a freeze on salaries...." The =
article=20
 wasn't clear whether she was referring only to district salaries or to =
a=20
 mandate that may come out of Boise. One thing we know is that if s =
&amp; b=20
 increases that money isn't being spent somewhere else. Either teaching =

positions have to be lost (result: increased class size &amp;/or more =
students=20
 moved to other buildings) or programs have to be cut or operated on =
less=20
 funding. Nothing pretty about any of it. Mike Curley On =
27 Mar=20
 03, at 5:27, Dale Courtney wrote: <?/color>From: =
<?color><?param 0000,0000,8000>"Dale Courtney" =
&lt;dale@courtneys.us&gt;<?/color> To:=20
 <?color><?param =
0000,0000,8000>&lt;vision2020@moscow.com&gt;<?/color> Subject:=20
<?color><?param 0000,0000,8000>RE: [Vision2020] MSD financial =
condition<?/color> Date sent: <?color><?param 0000,0000,8000>Thu, =
27=20
 Mar 2003 05:27:12 -0800<?/color> <?color><?param =
0000,8000,0000>[=20
 Double-click this line for list subscription options ]<?/color>=20
 Donovan, A couple comments: * State funding for =

education has not, not, not been drastically cut. That's a lie that =
someone=20
 has been feeding you. State Funding has increased every year since =
1989,=20
 and is now at 170% of the 1989 funding level. * However, =
our=20
 student enrollment at MSD has been on a sharp decline (390 =
students; 13% in=20
 5 years). State funding is linked to the number of students (duh!). =

* Why has the cost of education significantly in =
creased over the=20
 last 10 years? Was it to increase our test scores? The test scores =
have=20
 decreased every year for the last 13 years. In fact, it's down 7 =
percent.=20
 * Can you tell me why total staff has increased 52% =
while the=20
 enrollment in Idaho has only increased 16 percent? * Do you =
know why=20
 the buildings/facilities at MSD are falling apart? Could it be that =
MSD=20
 slashed that part of the budget (by 86.2%) while increasing support =

services 4 percent? What MSD did was to shift out $1,062,259=20
 from facilities into instruction/support costs. Playing a =
cup game by=20
 shifting funds doesn't put the blame on the tax payers? * =
Riddle me=20
 this: Are buildings/facilities fixed costs or variable costs? Are =
students=20
 fixed costs or variable costs? More to ponder. I'd =
like to ask=20
 the local liberals to think out of the box for a while. Look at the =
numbers=20
 and deal with reality. You cannot ask the Moscow taxpayers to =
continue to=20
 increase property taxes (mine right at 50% for government=20
 school support) when the enrollment continues to decrease.=20
 Best, Dale -----Original Message----- From:=20
 vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On =
Behalf=20
 Of Donovan Arnold Sent: Wednesday, 26 March, 2003 22:44=20
 To: dale@courtneys.us; vision2020@moscow.com Subject: =
RE: [Vision2020]=20
 MSD financial condition Dale, The reason why =
education=20
 is hurting, regardless of the 5-10 students less per grade between =
K-12 is=20
 four fold: 1) The state funding for education has been=20
 drastically cut. This means that the local area governments must=20
 make for this difference. That means the property owner. 2) =
The cost=20
 of education has significatly increased over the last ten years, =
about=20
 100-200% 3) Often times the number of students helps, not =
hurts,=20
 the education districts because the state divides the amount =
of state=20
 aid according to the population. If Moscow has a decrease in =
population and=20
 CD'A, Boise, Eagle, and Sandpoint have an increase, Moscow get an =
even=20
 smaller percentage of the state funding pie, this pie is also=20
 smaller. 4) The buildings and facilities are falling apart, it=20
 costs a great deal to rebuild and maintain them. I really =
think you=20
 need to do more research then looking at just government documents =
that are=20
 often misleading or broken up into pieces that don't always seem =
how they=20
 look. UI books are the worst, but Moscow does not keep =
the greatest of=20
 records either. Budgets are tricky and complicated and other only =
projected=20
 costs, a best guess so to speak. The only numbers that are usually =
reliable=20
 and understandable are the ones that definitions and are two =
or three=20
 years. Do you really think we have any idea as to how many students =
there=20
 will be MSD in 2005 or 2006? Donovan=20
 =
Arnold _______________________________________________=
______=20
 List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the =
communities=20
 of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net =
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////=20
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