[Vision2020] Church and State
Joshua Nieuwsma
joshuahendrik@yahoo.com
Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
--0-1668188358-1059079632=:8670
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I for one don't want to see a bible class taught alongside mormonism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, and any other -'isms. Why set the Word of God equal with the words of confused man? Take the Bible out of the public schools completely! It's about time the goals of public education were consistent with their practices. And while we're at it, kick the Christian children out, too. Their parents should have have pulled them out a long time ago. It's safer outside on the highway than in the government school classroom.
And as to a "bible ban", I do know that students and their families, and corresponding schools, have been sued for prayer during lunch, for prayer before a football game, for prayer in the locker rooms, for prayer just about anywhere but in their car on the school parking lot, and that just might be next. It seems to me that the definition of "appropriate" -as in "pray if they wish when appropriate" is rather up in the air, and much more restrictive than might be understood from Mr. Moffett's view.
Allow me also to take Mr. Moffett's statement about religion as an integral part of some classes and point out that it is impossible for any class or "subject" (though the idea of "subjects" is a bad one anyhow. It's not how the mind works, in my opinion) to be taught with direct foundation in God's Holy Word.
Mr. Moffett, your ecumenism of having every religion in a class taught about seems merely a grand utopia. Can you think of any schools that have successfully implimented such a plan anywhere in the world, without strive and division, or an undue emphasis of one religion over another?
cheers,
Joshua N.
Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com> wrote:
Benjamin and All:
The larger issue of the separation of Church and State I will leave alone,
but you are incorrect that Bibles are banned from public schools. Here
again we have a stereotyped factually incorrect view of our public schools
regarding religion. Anyone can lawfully bring a Bible into a public school,
they can read the Bible if they wish, pray if they wish when appropriate, or
discuss the Bible with others, but no school sponsored Bible classes (or
Koran or Book or Mormon or Christian Science classes etc.) or prayer
sessions, or discussions or clubs are allowed.
Religion can also be discussed in the context of an academic subject, indeed
there would be no way to accurately teach some subjects without including
religion as a fact of history or sociology or politics, for example.
I think religion should be taught much more in depth in the public schools
than it is now, with classes focusing on detailed study of all the world's
major religions and including the religions of every student in the public
school, without school sponsored advocacy, of course, for any particular
religion.
Link below to info on religion in public school:
http://www.naplesnews.com/03/06/perspective/d934868a.htm
Ted
>From: "Benjamin Nieuwsma"
>To: "Vision2020"
>Subject: [Vision2020] Church and State
>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:03:13 -0700
>
>Greetings;
>
>On a slightly different (and hopefully nicer) topic, I am wondering if
>anyone could explain to me how our current understanding of separation of
>church and state is supported by the constitution, because it really
>doesn't seem to be. In exemplum, I don't think that the argument against
>having Bibles in public schools because that breaches the first ammendment
>holds any water whatsoever. Perhaps I'm mistaken. If so, please explain...
>
>Thanks and have a great evening!
>
>Benjamin
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
--0-1668188358-1059079632=:8670
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>
<DIV>I for one <STRONG>don't</STRONG> want to see a bible class taught alongside mormonism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, and any other -'isms. Why set the Word of God equal with the words of confused man? Take the Bible out of the public schools completely! It's about time the goals of public education were consistent with their practices. And while we're at it, kick the Christian children out, too. Their parents should have have pulled them out a long time ago. It's safer outside on the <EM>highway</EM> than in the government school classroom. </DIV>
<DIV>And as to a "bible ban", I do know that students and their families, and corresponding schools, have been sued for prayer during lunch, for prayer before a football game, for prayer in the locker rooms, for prayer just about anywhere but in their car on the school parking lot, and that just might be next. It seems to me that the definition of "appropriate" -as in "pray if they wish <STRONG>when appropriate"</STRONG> is rather up in the air, and much more restrictive than might be understood from Mr. Moffett's view.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Allow me also to take Mr. Moffett's statement about religion as an integral part of <EM>some</EM> classes and point out that it is <EM>impossible</EM> for any class or "subject" (though the idea of "subjects" is a bad one anyhow. It's not how the mind works, in my opinion) to be taught with direct foundation in God's Holy Word. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Moffett, your ecumenism of having every religion in a class taught about seems merely a grand utopia. Can you think of any schools that have successfully implimented such a plan anywhere in the world, without strive and division, or an undue emphasis of one religion over another?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>cheers,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joshua N.</DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%"><BR>Benjamin and All:<BR><BR>The larger issue of the separation of Church and State I will leave alone, <BR>but you are incorrect that Bibles are banned from public schools. Here <BR>again we have a stereotyped factually incorrect view of our public schools <BR>regarding religion. Anyone can lawfully bring a Bible into a public school, <BR>they can read the Bible if they wish, pray if they wish when appropriate, or <BR>discuss the Bible with others, but no school sponsored Bible classes (or <BR>Koran or Book or Mormon or Christian Science classes etc.) or prayer <BR>sessions, or discussions or clubs are allowed.<BR><BR>Religion can also be discussed in the context of an academic subject, indeed <BR>there would be no way to accurately teach some subjects without including <BR>religion as a fact of history or sociology or politics, for example.<BR><BR>I think religion should be!
taught
much more in depth in the public schools <BR>than it is now, with classes focusing on detailed study of all the world's <BR>major religions and including the religions of every student in the public <BR>school, without school sponsored advocacy, of course, for any particular <BR>religion.<BR><BR>Link below to info on religion in public school:<BR><BR>http://www.naplesnews.com/03/06/perspective/d934868a.htm<BR><BR>Ted<BR><BR><BR>>From: "Benjamin Nieuwsma" <BRNIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET><BR>>To: "Vision2020" <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>Subject: [Vision2020] Church and State<BR>>Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:03:13 -0700<BR>><BR>>Greetings;<BR>><BR>>On a slightly different (and hopefully nicer) topic, I am wondering if <BR>>anyone could explain to me how our current understanding of separation of <BR>>church and state is supported by the constitution, because it really <BR>>doesn't seem to be. In exemplum, I don't think that the argument against <BR>>h!
aving
Bibles in public schools because that breaches the first ammendment <BR>>holds any water whatsoever. Perhaps I'm mistaken. If so, please explain...<BR>><BR>>Thanks and have a great evening!<BR>><BR>>Benjamin<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. <BR>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=10469/*http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com">Yahoo! SiteBuilder</a> - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
--0-1668188358-1059079632=:8670--