[Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply

[Ted Moffett]

Dale et. al

More fuel for the fire:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sch_vou.htm

This is a link to a site discussing vouchers, with an ample list of 
references.  Voucher programs in the USA have been rejected in the courts in 
several states after they were found to be unconstitutional, sometimes over 
principles of separation of church and state.  In some states voters voted 
down school voucher programs.  In California the possibility of a Wiccan 
school for children funded by vouchers was posed as a reason to vote them 
down.  This site offers quite a bit of factual info on the school voucher 
issue here in the USA.

So I assume you do not know of a private school for grades K-12 that offers 
all the programs and services that MSD offers for less money?  You did not 
answer this question.

You stated that you are not really advocating lessening of educational 
services, but outsourcing them.
I take it from this reply that you think programs and services at MSD could 
be out-sourced program by program, service by service, saving money and 
offering more choice and quality, without having to be offered by a private 
school that does it all?

Or do you think a variety of private schools in Moscow could in sum offer 
what MSD does?  Therefore, we could pull the plug on MSD?

But if you assume MSD should exist in some form, I assume you think that MSD 
should start outsourcing certain programs or services?

So the question remains, what programs or services would you start 
outsourcing at MSD, and maintain the same quality and service, or better, 
that MSD offers?

Would you have a private company, for example, coach and manage the Moscow 
Bear Football and Basketball programs?  We could have Nike run them maybe?  
Well, this example may not be fair, because it sounds disloyal to the idea 
of local community sporting spirit, right?  Well, maybe it could work.  
Corporate sponsors help USA Olympians.

And in your third point, when you state the "government" schools have no 
competition, I wonder how accurate this is, when there are local private 
religious schools and the public charter school (It is a public school, 
right?  I was surprised when I found this out, unless I was misinformed) 
right here in Moscow that offer competition.  My sister attended St. Mary's. 
  In fact, do not the religious private schools get to operate with a tax 
exempt status?  And of course home schooling is a form of competition.

Teaching quality might also be improved in the public schools by making pay 
increases and tenure dependent more on performance.  Your slam against the 
public schools awarding mediocrity is just a suggestion for reform, not a 
plea to abandon the public school system, it seems to me.

Again, in your fourth point, you talk about choice being offered in 
education, and it is being offered via educational options both private and 
public (Moscow's Charter School), here in Moscow.  Moscow High also has 
different programs for students based on special needs, you must be aware.  
And home schooling is possible.

On your fourth point, there is no reason why parents cannot be involved much 
more in the education of their children in public schools, so this argument 
does not disprove the value of the public school system, but only indicates 
how it could be improved.

In your fifth point, you claim a "one size fits all" approach is prevalent 
in public schools, but you must know, I repeat again, that Moscow High 
School has different programs for students with special needs, like an 
"alternative" program for students who have difficulty adjusting to the 
mainstream school programs.  Or at least at one time they did.

Are you suggesting abandoning educational standards set by the government 
for children, to allow parents to wholly control a child's education?  So if 
a parent wants to teach their child to learn to be a carpenter or a plumber, 
for example, and nothing more, that would be OK?  If we adopt your program 
of eliminating government tax supported schools, how will the private 
schools be monitored to prevent abuses, or do you think they should be?  Or 
do I have your position wrong, and you think some government pubic tax 
supported schools should still exist, but they need a lot of "outsourcing" 
to save money and improve quality, etc.

Obviously you do not think the teacher unions are a great idea for public 
education.  But could this system be reformed?

You must be aware that when private schools accept vouchers it opens the 
door to government regulation of private schools, which is something many 
private schools do not want, so they oppose vouchers!

Ted


>From: "Dale Courtney" <dale@courtneys.us>
>To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Pay and Tenure--a reply
>Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 19:52:09 -0700
>
>Ted wrote:
>
> > Donovan's questions that Dale does not want to answer seem relevant to
> > illuminating this debate over public vs private schools.  So Dale, why 
>not
> > provide at least some provisional concise answers?
>
>First, see my post:
>http://lists2.fsr.net/pipermail/vision2020/2003-July/002974.html about
>Europe and vouchers. In the West, only Italy and the USA don't have an
>educational voucher system.  FWIW, the WorldBank's study of the voucher
>system in 20 countries
>(http://www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/hnp/hddflash/workp/wp_00064.html) said
>that there is "no clear support for the negative predictions". If
>educational freedom would have led to the boogieman that everyone predicts,
>we should have seen it in spades by now. Educational vouchers have been 
>used
>for decades in many countries (Australia and Britain, in France, the Low
>Countries, Germany, Spain and Denmark).  Those for educational freedom are
>trying to push what Europe has practiced for years.
>
>Second, just because a service is privatized ("outsourced", to use the
>current buzzword) doesn't mean that the services offered are lessoned. In
>fact, when the government has done outsourcing contracts (with which I have
>intimate familiarity with many), everyone comes out ahead -- the government
>gets better service and the taxpayers pay less. There is no reason that all
>of our current educational desires cannot be met -- just not met under the
>stranglehold of the education unions.
>
>Third, competition is *always* a good thing. It raises expectations and
>results and lowers costs. One of the major problems we have is that the
>government schools have no competition and no "consequences" for performing
>poorly. It is always funny to me that those who scream the loudest against
>educational choice are those who rant about monopolies -- yet they support
>the worst one in existence!
>
>Fourth, choice is a good thing. Parents are much more involved when they
>have a choice in the education of their children. This has been 
>demonstrated
>in Cleveland and in Milwaukee.
>
>Fifth, the US has this "one size fits all" mentality for education. There 
>is
>no differentiation between parents' and children's goals and desires.
>Allowing parents to choose which education best fits their child will be
>best for both the children, families, and society.
>
>I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that a "public end" 
>(education)
>does not solely or even necessarily have to be met by a "public means"
>(government teachers). Educational choice (vouchers or tax refunds) allow
>for Freedom and Justice -- something I'd hope we would all support.
>
>Best,
>Dale Courtney
>Moscow, Idaho
>
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