[Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
Ron Force
rforce@moscow.com
Thu, 30 Jan 2003 13:55:49 -0800
The Turks (and to some extent, the Iranians) would not be thrilled with
armed-to-the-teeth, independence-minded Kurds on their doorstep. We have to
make sure our actions don't come back to bite us, eg., arming the Afgan
Mujahideen against the Russians, Sadaam against Iran.
********************************************
Ron Force rforce@moscow.com
Moscow Idaho USA
********************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> Behalf Of Thomas Hansen
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:11 PM
> To: 'John Danahy'; JoeH@turbonet.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
>
>
> Greetings Visionaires -
>
> In lieu of placing tens of thousands of US troops in harms way, may I
> suggest that we support the Kurdish rebels with technology, weaponry, and
> anything else (short of human bodies) necessary to permanently unseat
> Saddam?
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Danahy [mailto:jdanahy@turbonet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:01 PM
> To: JoeH@turbonet.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
>
>
> Come on folks, GW won't release the source because the source is his
> daddy. Where do you think Saddam got all this stuff in the first place?
> We gave it to him.
> John Danahy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Joe Huffman
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 7:19 AM
> To: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
>
> How many tons of VX did the UN inspector say Iraq had not accounted for?
> I
> thought I heard 200 tons. For those of you not familiar with VX -- it
> is a
> chemical nerve agent developed by the British. The US thought it was so
> valuable they traded nuclear bomb technology to them to get VX
> technology in
> return. The Brits thought it was such awful stuff they washed their
> hands
> of it. It is now banned by international treaty and the US is in the
> process of destroying their stocks of it. And Saddam has 200 tons of
> this
> stuff???? I'd rather he had nukes because you stand a better chance of
> detecting them as they come into the country. Dump a few pounds of this
> into the air vents for the Sears tower and you turn it into a mass
> grave.
> Subways in New York, San Francisco, and D.C.? This could be make the
> 9/11
> casualties look like a warm up.
>
> I do wish Bush would (could?) release the intelligence info that is the
> basis for his claims that Saddam must be removed from power. But being
> in
> the intelligence community (in a round about way) I know that there are
> some
> things you cannot release without destroying the source. And preserving
> those sources is more important that the good that would come from
> revealing
> the data. For example, what if the conference rooms of one or more of
> Saddam's palaces is "bugged". If Bush were to play the recording, or
> even
> release a transcript, they would certainly know how it was obtained and
> destroy that source of extremely valuable intelligence. Same thing with
> pictures. And no, I don't have access to any classified data on this
> subject.
>
> -joe-
> ----
> http://www.joehuffman.org
> http://www.modernballistics.com
> http://www.boomershoot.org
> mailto:email@joehuffman.org
> mailto:phone@joehuffman.org (Cell phone text message 110 chars max)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> Behalf Of Ted Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 3:10 AM
> To: dkaag@turbonet.com
> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
>
>
> Mr. Kaag, et. al.
>
> The "pacifist pets," to quote one of your choice phrases from an earlier
> vision2020 post that speaks volumes about your mindset, who are against
> the
> current push for war against Iraq, are very much concerned about the
> thousands of civilian deaths and injuries to men, women and children,
> that
> will certainly occur if we apply "maximum force consistent with the
> mission
> and its goals, and with the fewest possible U.S. casualties," to quote
> your
> wishes for how the war should proceed.
>
> So do you include thousands of civilians, including women and children,
> when
> you quote Patton about the "poor, dumb, S.O.B." who will die for his
> country? Perhaps you are being ironic when you refer to this quote as a
> "lovely sentiment." I surely hope so!
>
> Regardless, the fact the you could present your opinions on this subject
> only in terms of saving American lives, with no mention of the horrors
> that
> will be unleashed on civilians in Iraq, is an example of the American
> arrogance that earns the U.S the enmity of people around the world, when
> we
> use our overwhelming military power against weak defenseless nations,
> which
> certainly describes Iraq at this time.
>
> Debating about whether this will be a "war" or a "massacre" from the
> lofty
> realms of military science is absurd and callous. It will certainly be
> a
> "massacre." This is the issue that must be soberly considered before
> justifying this "war."
>
> I hope when you teach your students at Moscow High you present more
> compassion and balance in your attitudes towards the human family which
> must
> eventually live together on this planet in peace. It is either peace,
> or we
> will likely destroy ourselves or create a world of militarized armed
> camp
> against armed camp misery, etc. We are clearly on our way to one of the
> later outcomes!
>
> No, I am not ignorant of the necessity for the use of military force, so
> don't trot out your proud militaristic lecture about the rough men who
> are
> keeping America free so that "pacifist pets" such as myself can speak
> their
> mind. But I am very realistically aware of what will eventually happen
> to
> the human race if we cannot give up the habit of war.
>
> Are you?
>
> Ted
>
>
> >And by the way, although I am not particularly enamored with a war in
> Iraq,
> >it is my earnest desire that all wars the United States becomes
> involved in
> >be concluded speedily, with maximum force applied consistant with the
> >mission and its goals, and with the fewest possible U.S. casualties.
> You
> >would prefer, perhaps, a bunch of American kids coming home in body
> bags?
> >
> >General George Patton once said to his troops before battle," It is not
> >your job to die for your country... it is your job to make the other
> poor,
> >dumb, S.O.B. die for his!" A lovely sentiment.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Don Kaag
> >
> >
> >On Wednesday, January 29, 2003, at 11:35 AM, Bob Hoffmann wrote:
> >
> >>At 09:38 AM 1/29/2003 -0800, Carl Westberg wrote:
> >>>It's obvious we will be at war soon. Why the obsessive focus on
> Iraq?
> >>>It seem's the "axis of evil" has been condensed to Saddam, with North
> >>>Korea, Iran, etc. being "different". After Iraq, which way does
> Dubya
> >>>point his cowboy hat? Iraq is far from the only country we would
> have
> >>>reason to go war with, given Bush's criteria. I understand Canada's
> been
> >>>ticking the adminstration off lately.
> >>
> >>Aside from the oil issue, Iraq meets a number of other U.S.
> considerations
> >>as a candidate for war, without any exclusionary > issues.
> >>
> >>For example, since Vietnam, it has been U.S. policy not to fight any
> wars
> >>that it would have a remote possibility of losing, or even a remote
> >>possibility of resulting in massive U.S. casualties. With 50,000 U.S.
> >>troops within artillery range of North Korea, this point on the axis
> is
> >>clearly excluded. Developing nuclear weapons? By their own
> admission. A
> >>target for U.S. military attack? Not under the mutual damage
> exclusionary
> >>principle. We only attack countries that have no real possibility of
> >>fighting back: Iraq, Grenada, Panama, Libya, etc. Again, under the
> >>principles of war, if your enemy cannot fight back or reasonably
> defend
> >>itself, there is no war, merely a massacre.
> >>
> >>Bob Hoffmann
> >>820 S. Logan St.
> >>Moscow, ID 83843
> >>
> >>>>From: Bill Kerr <billk@moscow.com>
> >>>>To: vision2020@moscow.com
> >>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Free Speech and Crazy Bush
> >>>>Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 07:28:25 -0800
> >>>>
> >>>>Warning this message contains free speech stimulants. :)
> >>>>
> >>>>Does anyone else think that Dubya is complete in his craziness yet?
> >>>>What is the effect going to be on Moscow?
> >>>>Does anybody really care?
> >>>>Does Bush really care?
> >>>>
> >>>>Bill Kerr
> >>>>billk@moscow.com
> >>>>billk@drseuss.lib.uidaho.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>_____________________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>
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