[Vision2020] The Vendor Ordinances

Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:14:18 -0800

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My apologies for delayed response.  It has been a very busy week. First =
let me speak to Mike Curley's concern about someone pulling my leg. As =
previously mentioned, this originally came up back when Eldonna was the =
Chamber President. It has not been the most burning issue before the =
City, just kind of simmered until more recently City leadership decided =
to move ahead.=20

l now do my best to answer John's specific questions:=20
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: John Danahy=20
  To: Vision2020=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 5:33 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] The Vendor Ordinances

  Below I have cut some language from the draft ordinances and followed =
language with some specific questions.

  WHEREAS, a review of the current ordinance controlling vendors, =
peddlers, pushcart operation, food wagon operators, solicitors and =
canvassers suggests that changes are appropriate; and

  Where have the suggestions alluded to come from?  Downtown business =
owners, vendors, City Supervisor Gary Riedner & City Attorney Randy =
Fife. Why is current language not appropriate?  Current language does =
not address the street issue or the general mobile vendor issue. What =
specific problems have arisen that current language cannot resolve? The =
photo I previously posted is one example. In general, one of the =
concerns is getting people out of the street. The cart I took a picture =
of last week can move every three hours to avoid a parking ticket and be =
legal.=20

  WHEREAS, it has been determined by the Council that licensing and =
registration of Vendors will adequately address the concerns related to =
such persons by providing for a manner by which to identify and regulate =
them.

  What concerns related to such persons have been expressed?  =
Interference with pedestrians,confirmation of compliance with health =
regulations and unfair competition. There were several business owners =
at the hearing Monday who were in favor of the ordinance. I'm not naming =
names. I will leave it up to them to chime in if they desire. How will =
such licensing address such concerns? By providing the City with a =
legally enforceable way to deal with vendors who are not in compliance.

  To provide a means for merchants to conduct Vending Operations on the =
public right-of-way in designated areas of the City while retaining the =
rights of the public in the use of the rights-of-way and providing a =
means for regulation of Vending for the protection of the public.

  Does not current law provide for the rights of the public in the use =
of rights-of-way?  Yes- but it does not regulate commerce. Cannot =
current language be used to facilitate the protection of the public?  In =
some cases perhaps. Cannot MPD currently require a vendor blocking =
public rights-of-way to move? I believe so.

    1.. Vending Operation:  The act of selling goods, wares, merchandise =
and/or services on a public right-of-way or the act of placing or taking =
orders for goods, wares, merchandise and/or services on a public =
right-of-way.=20

  If a person undertakes to sell goods or services in a parking lot of a =
store, is that person a Vendor?  If not, why not?  Yes but it is not the =
intent of this ordinance to regulate activities on private property. =
What is the difference between impeding the flow of pedestrian or =
vehicle traffic in a private parking lot and a public rights-of-way?  I =
think I would prefer to answer this question with another question- how =
would you feel if the City was proposing to regulate activities on =
private property? Does this include the service organization that sells =
food at Parks and Rec Games in the summer?  Because service =
organizations are not for profit, they would be OK because of the =
exemption in the proposed ordinance. How is a charity car wash affected =
by this? All the charity carwashes I can recall seeing in Moscow have =
occurred on private property. As such, they would not be subject to the =
ordinance.

  When a Vendor proposes to sell any prepared food product for human =
consumption, a certification by the North Central Health District shall =
be required prior to issuance of a Vendor license. Prior to the issuance =
of any license when deemed necessary, the City shall inspect and approve =
each Vending Unit to assure compliance with the Code.

  Is this a new requirement?  No Does the city or, more properly, the =
NCHD currently inspect and approve?  I believe the NCHD would do their =
inspection to verify the vendor had satisfied health issues. The City =
inspection would verify that the mobile unit was within the proposed =
size constraints. Is a license needed to require this? A NCHD license =
would be required to get the vendors permit.

  Sec. 1-16.  Selling From Vehicles on Streets, Highways and Public =
Rights-Of-Way. =20

  No person shall sell or offer for sale or place or take orders for any =
goods, wares, merchandise and/or services from a vending unit, pushcart, =
vehicle, or other conveyance which is in a City street, highway, or =
public right-of-way, unless otherwise permitted by this Code

  How often does this happen?  I don't have any hard numbers but my =
sense not often. Is this truly a "problem?"  I don't believe this is a =
huge problem. However, not one vendor at our meeting Monday was arguing =
against the ordinance. In some respects, I sensed they welcomed it. If =
you think about it, the vendor passing through town for a day or so is =
the guy we probably have more to worry about. A vending ordinance, if we =
do it right, will give the City some control over that group. The =
established vendors, in my opinion, realize this will provide them some =
protection. Is there no other current language that can be used to solve =
the few problems that might crop up? Not that I'm aware of.

  I just do not see any real or imaginary need for all this. Then I =
encourage you and anyone else to keep lobbying me and the other city =
council members in that direction. Right now I'm just trying to get as =
much input as possible to help us draft an ordinance that doesn't impede =
business. Once we have that draft, we can have the debate as to whether =
or not the ordinance is needed. I can tell you the city contacted a =
number of communities, most of whom have an ordinance. Those documents =
were used to help develop the language in the draft we are currently =
working on.=20

  I also note the recent email regarding the kids and their lemonade =
stand. I will ask Randy Fife to read my responses to make certain I =
haven't made any mis-interpretations and also weigh in on the lemonade =
question.

  Jon Kimberling

  John=20

  jdanahy@turbonet.com

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#0000ff>My apologies for =
delayed=20
response.&nbsp; It has been a very busy week.&nbsp;First let me speak to =
Mike=20
Curley's concern about someone pulling my leg. As previously mentioned, =
this=20
originally came up back when Eldonna was the Chamber President. It has =
not been=20
the most burning issue before the City, just kind of simmered until more =

recently City leadership decided to move ahead. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>l now do my=20
best to answer John's specific questions: </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
 <DIV=20
 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black">From:=20
 <A title=3Djdanahy@turbonet.com =
href=3D"mailto:jdanahy@turbonet.com">John=20
 Danahy</A> </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">To: <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
 href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020</A> </DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, February 25, =
2003 5:33=20
 PM</DIV>
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">Subject: [Vision2020] The =
Vendor=20
 Ordinances</DIV>
 <DIV> </DIV>
 <DIV class=3DSection1>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Below I have cut some =
language=20
 from the draft ordinances and followed language with some specific=20
 questions.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
 WHEREAS, a =
review of=20
 the current ordinance controlling vendors, peddlers, pushcart =
operation, food=20
 wagon operators, solicitors and canvassers suggests that changes are=20
 appropriate; and
 &nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Where have the =
suggestions alluded=20
 to come from?&nbsp; Downtown business owners, =
vendors,=20
 City Supervisor Gary Riedner &amp; City Attorney Randy Fife. =
Why is=20
 current language not appropriate?&nbsp; Current =
language=20
 does not address the street issue or the general mobile vendor issue.=20
 What specific problems have arisen that current language cannot =

  resolve? <FONT color=3D#0000ff>The photo I previously posted is one =
example. In=20
  general, one of the concerns is getting people out of the street. The =
cart I=20
  took a picture of last week&nbsp;can move every three hours to avoid a =
parking=20
  ticket and be legal. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">WHEREAS, =
it has been=20
  determined by the Council that licensing and registration of Vendors =
will=20
  adequately address the concerns related to such persons by providing =
for a=20
  manner by which to identify and regulate them</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt">.</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What concerns related to =
such=20
  persons have been expressed?&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#0000ff>Interference =
with=20
  pedestrians,confirmation of compliance with health regulations and =
unfair=20
  competition. There were several business owners at the hearing Monday =
who were=20
  in favor of the ordinance. I'm not naming names. I will leave it up to =
them to=20
  chime in if they desire. </FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">How will such licensing =
address=20
  such concerns? <FONT color=3D#0000ff>By providing the City with a =
legally=20
  enforceable way to deal with vendors who are not in=20
  compliance.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoBodyText2=20
  style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: normal; TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT=20
  face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">To provide a means for =
merchants to=20
  conduct Vending Operations on the public right-of-way in designated =
areas of=20
  the City while retaining the rights of the public in the use of the=20
  rights-of-way and providing a means for regulation of Vending for the=20
  protection of the public.</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Does not current law =
provide for=20
  the rights of the public in the use of rights-of-way?&nbsp; <FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>Yes- but it does not regulate commerce. </FONT>Cannot =
current=20
  language be used to facilitate the protection of the public?&nbsp; =
<FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>In some cases perhaps. </FONT>Cannot MPD currently =
require a=20
  vendor blocking public rights-of-way to move? <FONT color=3D#0000ff>I =
believe=20
  so.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <OL type=3DA>
    <LI class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D2><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Vending =
Operation:&nbsp; The act=20
    of selling goods, wares, merchandise and/or services on a public=20
    right-of-way or the act of placing or taking orders for goods, =
wares,=20
    merchandise and/or services on a public =
right-of-way.</SPAN></FONT></B>=20
  </LI></OL>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If a person undertakes =
to sell=20
  goods or services in a parking lot of a store, is that person a =
Vendor?&nbsp;=20
  If not, why not?&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#0000ff>Yes but it is not the =
intent of=20
  this ordinance to regulate activities on private property. </FONT>What =
is the=20
  difference between impeding the flow of pedestrian or vehicle traffic =
in a=20
  private parking lot and a public rights-of-way?&nbsp; <FONT =
color=3D#0000ff>I=20
  think I would prefer to answer this question with another question- =
how would=20
  you feel if the City was proposing to regulate activities on private =
property?=20
  </FONT>Does this include the service organization that sells food at =
Parks and=20
  Rec Games in the summer?&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#0000ff>Because service=20
  organizations are not for profit, they would be OK because of the =
exemption in=20
  the proposed ordinance. </FONT>How is a charity car wash affected by =
this?=20
  <FONT color=3D#0000ff>All the charity carwashes I can recall seeing in =
Moscow=20
  have occurred on private property. As such, they would not be subject =
to the=20
  ordinance.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: =
line">When a=20
  Vendor proposes to sell any prepared food product for human =
consumption, a=20
  certification by the North Central Health District shall be required =
prior to=20
  issuance of a Vendor license. </SPAN></FONT></B><B><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Prior to the issuance of =
any=20
  license when deemed necessary, the City shall inspect and approve each =
Vending=20
  Unit to assure compliance with the Code.</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Is this a new =
requirement?&nbsp;=20
  <FONT color=3D#0000ff>No </FONT>Does the city or, more properly, the =
NCHD=20
  currently inspect and approve?&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#0000ff>I believe =
the NCHD=20
  would do their inspection to verify the vendor had satisfied health =
issues.=20
  The City inspection would verify that the mobile unit was within the =
proposed=20
  size constraints. </FONT>Is a license needed to require this? <FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>A NCHD license would be required to get the vendors=20
  permit.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sec. =
1-16.&nbsp;=20
  Selling From Vehicles on Streets, Highways and Public=20
  Rights-Of-Way.</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt">&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">No person =
shall sell=20
  or offer for sale or place or take orders for any goods, wares, =
merchandise=20
  and/or services from a vending unit, pushcart, vehicle, or other =
conveyance=20
  which is in a City street, highway, or public right-of-way, unless =
otherwise=20
  permitted by this Code</SPAN></FONT></B></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><B><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: =
11pt"></SPAN></FONT></B>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">How often does this =
happen?&nbsp;=20
  <FONT color=3D#0000ff>I don't have any hard numbers but my =
sense&nbsp;not often.=20
  </FONT>Is this truly a =93problem?=94&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#0000ff>I =
don't believe=20
  this is a huge problem. However, not one vendor at our meeting Monday =
was=20
  arguing against the ordinance. In some respects, I sensed they =
welcomed it. If=20
  you think about it, the vendor passing through town for a day or so is =
the guy=20
  we probably have more to worry about. A vending ordinance, if we do it =
right,=20
  will give the City some control over that group. The established =
vendors, in=20
  my opinion, realize this will provide them some protection</FONT><FONT =

color=3D#000000>. Is there no other current language that can be used =
to solve=20
 the few problems that might crop up? Not =
that I'm=20
 aware of.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;
 &nbsp;
 I just do not see any real or =
imaginary=20
 need for all this. Then I encourage you and =
anyone else to=20
 keep lobbying me and the other city council members in that direction. =
Right=20
 now I'm just trying to get as much input as possible to help us draft =
an=20
 ordinance that doesn't impede business. Once we have that draft, we =
can have=20
 the debate&nbsp;as to&nbsp;whether or not&nbsp;the ordinance&nbsp;is =
needed. I=20
 can tell you the city contacted a number of communities, most of whom =
have an=20
 ordinance. Those documents were used to help develop the language in =
the draft=20
 we are currently working on. 
 &nbsp;
 I also note =
the recent=20
 email regarding the kids and their lemonade stand. I will ask Randy =
Fife to=20
 read my responses to make certain I haven't made any =
mis-interpretations and=20
 also weigh in on the lemonade question.
 &nbsp;
 Jon=20
 Kimberling
 &nbsp;
 John 
 <A=20
 =
href=3D"mailto:jdanahy@turbonet.com">jdanahy@turbonet.com</A></FON=
T>
 &nbsp;
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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