[Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance

Tom Hansen thansen@moscow.com
Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:18:10 -0800


I strongly agree with you , Mr. Neuman, that we all should assume full
responsibility for our actions (as it should be).

However, I also feel that taverns that continue to serve customers that are
clearly intoxicated should be held liable (to a degree) for contributory
negligence, maybe not criminally but civilly.

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Neuman [mailto:bradneuman@moscow.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 7:36 PM
> To: thansen@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance
>
>
> No Tom, I don't feel that way.  I believe that people should take
> responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming other
> people for their
> mistakes.
>
> The thin "clearly intoxicated" definition and those like it)are a
> guaranteed
> feed trough for lawyers and their ilk.
>
> Brad Neuman
>
> "Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty.
> Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace.
> Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice."
> - Lin Yutang, Chinese-American Philosopher.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
> Behalf Of Tom Hansen
> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:11 PM
> To: curley@turbonet.com; vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance
>
> Thank you, Mr. Curley.  I truly appreciate your clarification.
>
> I, for one, believe that Idaho should adopt third-party laws.  If
> a customer
> is clearly intoxicated, taverns should refuse to serve him/her or
> consequently assume some responsibility when that person gets behind the
> wheel of an automobile.
>
> Are there any others that feel this way?
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> > Behalf Of Mike Curley
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 6:10 PM
> > To: vision2020@moscow.com
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance
> >
> >
> > Mr. Hansen:
> > What Mr. Steed was pointing out is that the answer to
> > your question had just been posted in that the Idaho
> > "dram shop act" (Title 23, Chap 808) is what you are
> > calling a "third party law."  And, rather than creating
> > liability, it specifically says that the person who serves the
> > alcohol is NOT "the cause of injuries inflicted by
> > intoxicated persons..." and that no cause of action will lie
> > against the one who "sold or otherwise furnished [as in,
> > "gave"] alcoholic beverages to the intoxicated person"
> > UNLESS the person to whom the alcohol was furnished
> > was either under 21 or "obviously intoxicated at the time
> > the alcoholic beverages were sold or furnished...."
> >
> > Thus, even a bar can only be held liable if one of those
> > two conditions is met.  It cannot be held liable just
> > because it provides a patron more than the legal limit for
> > drivers (.08).
> >
> > Mike Curley
> > On 11 Feb 03, at 17:53, Tom Hansen wrote:
> >
> > Send reply to:  	<thansen@moscow.com>
> > From:           	"Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>
> > To:             	<WMSteed@aol.com>, <curley@turbonet.com>,
> > <sslund@moscow.com>,
> >   	<vision2020@moscow.com>
> > Copies to:      	<steveb@moscow.com>, <jon@n-k-ins.com>,
> > <jmhill@moscow.com>,
> >   	<jmack@turbonet.com>, <mtethoma@moscow.com>,
> > <peg_hamlett@sbcglobal.net>,
> >   	<comstock@moscow.com>
> > Subject:        	RE: [Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance
> > Date sent:      	Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:53:01 -0800
> >
> > I am simply asking a question, not pandering for
> > ignorance.
> > I have been under the assumption for a long time that
> > Idaho
> > does have third-party laws. I was (and am) asking for
> > clarification.
> >
> > Mr. Steed, if this is how you provide assistance to those
> > seeking it, please remind me not to ask you.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
> > > [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On Behalf Of
> > > WMSteed@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 5:30 PM
> > > To: thansen@moscow.com; curley@turbonet.com;
> > > sslund@moscow.com; vision2020@moscow.com Cc:
> > > steveb@moscow.com; jon@n-k-ins.com; jmhill@moscow.com;
> > > jmack@turbonet.com; mtethoma@moscow.com;
> > > peg_hamlett@sbcglobal.net; comstock@moscow.com Subject:
> > > Re: [Vision2020] re: liquor liability insurance
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 2/11/03 5:20:25 PM, thansen@moscow.com
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > << Doesn't Idaho have what I believe is called "Third
> > > Party" laws concerning liquor establishments?  If a tavern
> > > serves alcohol to a person knowing that they are
> > > intoxicated and that person commits an unlawful act as a
> > > direct result of his/her intoxication, the tavern is also
> > > liable.
> > >
> > > I am not certain, but I believe that Idaho has such laws
> > > on the books, Please correct me if I am wrong. >>
> > >
> > > This might indicate why so many of the conversations on
> > > 2020 seem circular.... or some such...
> > >
> > > >From Mike Curley's post of 30 minutes ago:
> > >
> > > "we might note
> > > that Idaho law relieves even the person who serves liquor
> > > of liability for the drinker's subsequent negligent acts
> > > unless he served to a minor or a person who was obviously
> > > intoxicated.  The City is not serving any alcohol at any
> > > of the functions on city-owned property.  The business
> > > that receives the temporary (alcohol) catering license is
> > > responsible, but only in those two situations."
> > >
> > >
> > > Walter Steed
> > >
> > > _____________________________________________________
> > >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >                http://www.fsr.net
> > >           mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> > > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> > >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >           mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> > /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
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